Question on Feynman lectures volume 1 (wavelength and frequency)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical derivations presented in Feynman's Lectures on Physics, specifically regarding the relationships between wavelength, frequency, and their respective changes. Participants are examining the equations provided in chapters 30 and 32, seeking clarification on how these equations are derived and their implications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the derivation of the equation for the change in wavelength, \(\Delta\lambda = \frac{2 \pi c \Delta \omega}{{\omega}^2}\), from the relationship \(\lambda = \frac{2\pi c}{\omega}\).
  • The same participant also questions the derivation of the change in frequency equation, \(\Delta \nu = \frac{c \Delta \lambda}{{\lambda}^2}\), from \(\nu = \frac{c}{\lambda}\).
  • Another participant provides a method using a function \(f(x) = 1/x\) to explain how to derive the relationship between changes in frequency and wavelength, suggesting that the approximations improve as the changes become smaller.
  • A later reply points out that the relationship derived should include a negative sign, indicating that an increase in frequency results in a decrease in wavelength, thus challenging the previous explanation while emphasizing the context of spectral line widths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation of the equations, with differing views on the necessity of including a negative sign in the relationship between changes in frequency and wavelength. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity and completeness of the explanations provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the equations discussed are approximations and that a deeper understanding may require calculus. There is also mention of the need to consider the context of spectral line widths when interpreting the equations.

demonelite123
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in chapter 32 section 4 on electromagnetic waves, near the end he writes since [itex]\lambda = \frac{2\pi c}{\omega}[/itex] then [itex]\Delta\lambda = \frac{2 \pi c \Delta \omega}{{\omega}^2}[/itex]. i understand the first equation he writes but then the second one i am having trouble convincing myself how he came up with that.

also earlier in chapter 30 on refraction, he also says the frequency is [itex]\nu = \frac{c}{\lambda}[/itex] so [itex]\Delta \nu = \frac{c \Delta \lambda}{{\lambda}^2}[/itex]. similarly i don't understand how he comes up with the second equation. he doesn't seem to explain it and it's not obvious to me how he got that. can someone help clarify this? thanks!
 
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It sounds like you have not had calculus yet, when you do this will be much more clear. But in the mean time, you can still get it like this. If you have a function like f(x)=1/x (think of f as wavelength and x as frequency), and you want to know what changes in f will be, let x become x + dx, where dx is a small change in x, and call df the change in f that we are interested in. Then df = 1/(x+dx) - 1/x, correct? Now rewrite 1/(x+dx) as 1/x times 1/(1+dx/x), where dx/x << 1. Now here comes the key approximation, that works really well the smaller is dx/x:
I claim that 1/(1+dx/x) = 1-dx/x
to good approximation, and then note that if my claim is true, then df = dx/x2, as in the above formulae.

To check my claim, cross multiply, and note that the claim requires 1 = (1+dx/x)*(1-dx/x) = 1 - (dx/x)2. Can you see that (dx/x)2 is indeed a very small error in this equation, and gets really small as dx/x gets smaller? That's the whole idea-- the expressions you quote are not exact, but they are very good approximations that get better and better as the change in frequency you are considering gets smaller and smaller.
 
...then note that if my claim is true, then df = dx/x2, as in the above formulae.

I don't mean to nitpick, but just want to mention that if f(x) = 1/x, then (even without calculus) one can see that f(x) decreases when x increases, and f(x) increases when x decreases, which means the that the proportion relating a change in f to a change in x has to be negative. In fact (using calculus) the correct relation is df = - dx/x2. So Eq. (32.13), at the end of FLP Vol. I Chapter 32 section 3, which demonelite123 is asking about, and in which the minus sign is lacking, requires something more than calculus to explain it -- namely that, in this case, we are only interested in the width of the spectral lines so we can ignore the sign.

Mike Gottlieb
Editor, The Feynman Lectures on Physics
 
Last edited:
thank you both for your replies!
 

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