Question regarding an integral

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around integrating an equation related to motion, specifically involving the variable \(\dot{x}\) and its relationship with \(x\). Participants are examining discrepancies between their integration results and those provided in a textbook, as well as results from Wolfram Alpha.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to integrate the equation \(\frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{2l^4 a^2 x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2}\) and are comparing their results with those from a textbook and Wolfram Alpha. Questions are raised about the meaning of the notation used and the validity of the results. Some participants are exploring the differentiation of their results to verify correctness.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the integration process and the results obtained. Some participants have provided steps for their integration, while others are questioning the assumptions and definitions involved. A few participants suggest that the results may differ only by an additive constant, but this has not been universally accepted.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the textbook does not provide steps for its result, leading to confusion. There is also mention of starting conditions that could affect the constant of integration.

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Homework Statement


I've got an equation which I need to integrate. However, integrating it and checking with the solutions, I get two different results. I get the same result as using wolfram alpha, but a different result from the book.
If I differentiate both results, I get back to the orginal equation, so I don't know why they are different.

Homework Equations


Equation which I need to Integrate by separation of variables: \frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{2l^4 a^2 x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2}

Result from Book: \dot{x}^2 = \frac{ l^2 a^2 x^2}{12x^2+l^2}
Result from Wolfram-Alpha: \dot{x}^2 = -\frac{(a^2 l^4)}{(12 (l^2+12 x^2))}

The Attempt at a Solution


If I differentiate both, I'll both get the same equation back which I integrated, I just don't understand why that's the case, since it doesn't look like they differ by a additive constant.
 
Last edited:
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Paumi said:

Homework Statement


I've got an equation which I need to integrate. However, integrating it and checking with the solutions, I get two different results. I get the same result as using wolfram alpha, but a different result from the book.
If I differentiate both results, I get back to the orginal equation, so I don't know why they are different.

Homework Equations


Equation which I need to Integrate by separation of variables: \frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{2l^4 a x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2}

Result from Book: \dot{x}^2 = \frac{ l^2 a^2 x^2}{12x^2+l^2}
Result from Wolfram-Alpha: \dot{x}^2 = -\frac{(a^2 l^4)}{(12 (l^2+12 x^2))}

The Attempt at a Solution


If I differentiate both, I'll both get the same equation back which I integrated, I just don't understand why that's the case, since it doesn't look like they differ by a additive constant.

(1) Please clarify: does
\frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx}
mean
\frac{d( d(x^2)/dt)}{dx}
or
\frac{d (dx/dt)^2}{dx}
or
\left( \frac{d (dx / dt) }{dx}\right)^2 \:?
(2) Show the steps you used in obtaining your answer.
 
Last edited:
It means :\frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)^2

For the result from the book there where no steps shown.

For my result: \frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{2l^4a^2x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} \Longrightarrow \int d\dot{x}^2 =2 l^4a^2\int \frac{x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} dx

Apply Substitution: u = 12x^2 +l^2 \,\,\,\,\,\,\, \frac{du}{dx} = 24x \Rightarrow dx = \frac{1}{24x}du

\int d\dot{x}^2 = \dot{x}^2 = l^4a^2 \int\frac{1}{24u^2}du = -2l^4a^2\frac{1}{24} u^{-1} + c = -l^4a^2\frac{1}{12}\frac{1}{12x^2+l^2}+c

There were some starting conditions which would lead to c = 0
 
Paumi said:
It means :\frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{dx}{dt}\right)^2

For the result from the book there where no steps shown.

For my result: \frac{d\dot{x}^2}{dx} = \frac{2l^4a^2x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} \Longrightarrow \int d\dot{x}^2 =2 l^4a^2\int \frac{x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} dx

Apply Substitution: u = 12x^2 +l^2 \,\,\,\,\,\,\, \frac{du}{dx} = 24x \Rightarrow dx = \frac{1}{24x}du

\int d\dot{x}^2 = \dot{x}^2 = l^4a^2 \int\frac{1}{24u^2}du = -2l^4a^2\frac{1}{24} u^{-1} + c = -l^4a^2\frac{1}{12}\frac{1}{12x^2+l^2}+c

There were some starting conditions which would lead to c = 0

You are correct, and the book is wrong (as can be checked by differentiating the answer---a step you should always perform).
 
I did perform that step as I wrote in my post and I get the same equation, though my derivative might be wrong.

Let's differentiate the solution from the book with respect to x:

\frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{l^2a^2x^2}{12x^2+l^2}\right) = l^2a^2 \frac{d}{dx}\left(\frac{x^2}{12x^2+l^2}\right)

Using the quotient rule I get: l^2a^2 \frac{2x(12x^2+l^2)-24x^3}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} = l^2a^2\frac{24x^3-2xl^2-24x^3}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} = \frac{2l^4a^2x}{(12x^2+l^2)^2} which is the same as the orginal function which I integrated
 
Even though it doesn't look like it at first glance, the two results do, in fact, differ by just an additive constant:
$$\frac{a^2l^2}{12}-\frac{a^2l^4}{12(12x^2+l^2)} = \frac{l^2a^2x^2}{12x^2+l^2}$$
 
vela said:
Even though it doesn't look like it at first glance, the two results do, in fact, differ by just an additive constant:
$$\frac{a^2l^2}{12}-\frac{a^2l^4}{12(12x^2+l^2)} = \frac{l^2a^2x^2}{12x^2+l^2}$$

Oops, my mistake in #4.
 
Ah I see, thanks very much both of you!
 

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