Quick question on work and energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of work, energy, and the effects of deceleration on fragile objects, including humans. Participants explore hypothetical scenarios involving energy absorption and the mechanics of impact protection, using both magical and realistic frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a fragile object, like an egg, would be harmed if all kinetic energy is absorbed without any work done on it.
  • Another participant argues that stress, rather than energy per se, is what harms fragile objects.
  • Some participants suggest that if all kinetic energy is absorbed by an external mechanism, the object would not be damaged.
  • There is a discussion about negative work being done on an object to remove energy, with some participants expressing confusion about this concept.
  • A hypothetical scenario involving a human using an airbag to absorb kinetic energy is proposed, with varying opinions on the effectiveness of such a method.
  • Participants discuss the implications of using a capsule filled with water to protect a human from impact, raising questions about the dynamics involved.
  • One participant suggests a mechanical contraption that converts downward deceleration into rotation as a potential method to mitigate harm during impact.
  • Another participant references the design of ski jumps as an example of managing deceleration through slope curvature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the mechanics of energy absorption and the conditions under which fragile objects or humans might be harmed. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the effectiveness of the proposed methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their scenarios, such as the size and effectiveness of airbags, the nature of energy transfer, and the assumptions regarding the physical properties of materials involved.

  • #31
ElementsnStuff said:
If I'm reading this thread right, so far there are established methods to limit the effects of deceleration, stress, and kinetic energy on a body. Therefore, all that seems to be left are shock waves...
That's a bit backwards. The method limits the stresses themselves (not the effects of stresses) during high acceleration (but low jerk). Shock waves (due to high jerk) are one way to dissipate the kinetic energy of the object. The method is usually to dissipate the kinetic energy by destroying some softer crumple zone, to protect the important parts in a harder shell.
 
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  • #32
Back to the question of deceleration: My goal here is to make the vertical distance of deceleration as small as possible without harming the body. To that end, would it be possible to do the following:

-Attach a bunch of tiny, hollow cylindrical 'wheels' to the bottom of the system. Through these are connected a bunch of axial rods which are rigidly attached to the system, and the whole setup is encased in a semi-viscous fluid. The rods are, through some means, made to stay on the side of the tube until the moment of impact. Upon impact, the rods begin rapidly rotating around the inside of the tubes, converting the deceleration into rotational force and slowing down via means of the viscous fluid until they are once again at rest.

Is this a viable means of safely removing deceleration from a system? I'm mainly just trying to convert that idea about the ski slopes from earlier into something mechanical. If this isn't a good idea, does anyone have a better one?
 
  • #33
ElementsnStuff said:
I thought of this recently, and want to know if there's something I'm missing.

So, say a very fragile object decelerates to a stop from a given velocity. For example, a free-falling object hitting the ground.

But, all the kinetic energy is absorbed through use of some clever mechanics (assume magic for this part).

If no energy was transmitted to the object, and (therefore) no work was done on it, would the fragile object still be harmed?
The "magic" gets that energy. If the magic is sand and falling object is ball, then energy kinetic energy turns to thermal energy of ball and sand. Work is done during the impact.
 
  • #34
ElementsnStuff said:
Back to the question of deceleration: My goal here is to make the vertical distance of deceleration as small as possible without harming the body.

First you have to determine what you mean by "harming the body" and what the body can withstand before that happens.

Once you have worked out what you mean by that you need to devise a scheme that ensures the body doesn't experience anything worse. For example it might be the case that constant deceleration gives the shortest stopping distance without harm, or some other profile might prove to be better. Then you need to design the system to achieve that.

I've no idea if your proposed system achieves your objective as neither are well specified. There is a lot of science and engineering in springs and damping systems.
 

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