Quotient groups related problem

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a finite group G and a normal subgroup N, with the condition that the order of N and the index of N in G are coprime. The original poster attempts to prove that if an element x raised to the power of the order of N equals the identity element, then x must belong to N.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of the order of elements and the relationship between the orders of subgroups. The original poster explores the divisibility of orders and attempts to derive a contradiction if x is not in N. Others raise questions about the correctness of assumptions and provide alternative perspectives on the argument.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the structure of the argument, but there is no explicit consensus on the validity of the proposed methods. Participants are encouraged to verify details and clarify points of confusion.

Contextual Notes

There are noted corrections regarding the gcd condition, and some participants express uncertainty about specific claims made in the arguments. The original poster acknowledges the need for careful checking of the reasoning presented.

zcahana
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Homework Statement



Let G be a finite group and N\triangleleftG such that |N| = n, and gcd(n,[G:N]) = 1.
Proof that if x^{n} = e then x\inN.

Homework Equations



none.

The Attempt at a Solution



I defined |G| = m and and tried to find an integer which divides both n and m/n.
I went for some X which is not in N, for which X^n = e.
I defined o(X) = q and then q | n.
No luck showing that q | m/n.Any other ideas?Thanks ahead,
Zvi
 
Last edited:
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This is not true! Take some subgroup H of the Klein group K of order 2. It is normal as K is abelian. K/H also has order 2, and so gcd(H,[K:H]) = 2. But there is certainly an element of order 2 in K that is not in H.

Did you mean to write that the gcd is 1?
 
mrbohn1 said:
Did you mean to write that the gcd is 1?

Yes I did, sorry for the mistake...
*Corrected*
 
Here's a rough sketch:

Suppose x is not in N. Let M=<x>. If xn=e then M has order dividing n. |MN|=mn/|M\capN|, where m is the order of M. MN is a subgroup of G by the second (or third, depending on your numbering!) isomorphism theorem. So mn/|M\capN| divides |G|.

Now, |G| = tn, where t=[G:N] is coprime to n. So m/|M\capN| must divide t. But this is impossible, as m divides n, and t is coprime to n. So x is in N.

As a disclaimer, it's a while since I did any group theory! So you should check all this carefully.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the response.

By stating that M\capN = <1> did you mean M\capN = e?
If so, it seems to me that it is not necessarily true.
If you meant something else, please elaborate.Zvi.
 
hmmm..yes, sorry about that. I've modified the argument above. Still no guarantee it is right!

Yes, when I say <1> I mean e...itis just to distinguish the identity element from the trivial group.
 
Sorry... I still see a problem with the conclusion that mn divides |G|...
 
That was just an error with my previous editing. Hopefully it is fixed now.

If you spot another problem, try filling in the details yourself...it's the only way to learn! I have done this very much off the cuff, and intended it to be a "suggested method" rather than a full solution to be copied down.
 
Thanks for you help!...
 

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