- #31
moe darklight
- 409
- 0
EDIT: holy cow! I wasn't expecting this post would come out this long! eeek
I don't think it's fair to call them idiots ... sure, "proper" grammar has its charms, but language tends to evolve through the path of least effort.— As someone mentioned before, nobody uses "thee" or "thou" anymore; nor does anyone differentiate "hither" and "thither" from "here" and "there."
"You! come here!" is perfectly solid grammar in 2007. Had you said that in 1707, you'd've been seen as somewhat of an unsophisticate. — What is now the "beautiful and elegant" language of Italian was once the crude Latin of the "common people" — no one now would say that Italian or Spanish is a poor man's Latin.
Here's my 2c:
Spoken languages change much faster than written ones. As soon as a language starts being written down, "official" rules of proper grammar and syntax are created for it, which stagnates that change.
Also, there is a tendency to put more thought into written language than spoken language: someone writing a novel will pay more attention to what words he's using than someone buying a big-mac: few people speak as well as they write.
Not to mention: up until now, people have been writing things they meant to preserve for a long time.
What is happening now, which has never happened before, is that people are writing things that are not meant to last. People are not writing long letters to loved ones who live miles away that will be received days after they have been written and are meant to be read and re-read carefully and kept for a long time: people are chatting— writing things that are meant to be read once, then tossed away instantly.
In other words: people are writing at the speed in which they speak. This is bound to affect things.
I doubt we'll be seeing this in the next generation of English schoolbooks:
But we can't expect language to remain unaffected by the internet.
That said, I do think that some people's English is inexcusably atrocious: bad to the point where they can't even express themselves properly when they have to, or can't comprehend anything written at a level of English higher than what you would find in this month's MAD Magazine's Monroe strip.
But it's unfair to call these people idiots— they are not (at least many of them aren't)— it's because they are uneducated... or rather: they have not been properly educated.
I know I complain a lot about the school system. But it truly is terrible terrible terrible. So here I go again!
I don't blame the teachers; I've had some great teachers, many of whom were also horrified by the crap they were made to teach (my English teacher was especially critical of the school system).
How can it be that I graduated with an A in academic English and still my knowledge of the language was basic at best? (I don't know if in the US it's the same, but here they separate applied English from academic English... I can't imagine what students are learning [if anything at all] in applied English classes).
I took the mandatory literacy test three years after arriving to this country. I passed it with a perfect score: I cannot stress enough how EASY and BASIC this test is. Yet how can it be that so many local students fail it! I remember watching the news and students complaining about it being too HARD ! they were actually considering making it easier to accommodate the amount of students who were failing it!
here's a fringe idea: HOW ABOUT TEACHING BETTER ENGLISH.
Truth is they've made school too easy, and students are not being pushed nearly enough. Many classes that should be mandatory aren't: math beyond basic arithmetic, academic english, science, biology, physics.
Of course a teenager doesn't want to do those things! of course, as a 14 year old, all I and most of the other kids cared about was trying to get girls and see if we can get someone to buy us alcohol... and there's a reason for this: teenagers are morons! I was a moron, my friends were morons, and the vast majority of my schoolmates were morons — but that's exactly WHY teenagers need to be pushed into higher learning.
I think it's laughable that I graduated as an A student and basically learned nothing. It dawned on me a few weeks ago as I was reading brief biographies of my favorite authors— those from older generations like Poe or even Joyce: all these people were got out of school speaking Latin and French, knowing science and math, and already writing beautifully... what happened to our schools?
once more: ugh.
SticksandStones said:
I don't think it's fair to call them idiots ... sure, "proper" grammar has its charms, but language tends to evolve through the path of least effort.— As someone mentioned before, nobody uses "thee" or "thou" anymore; nor does anyone differentiate "hither" and "thither" from "here" and "there."
"You! come here!" is perfectly solid grammar in 2007. Had you said that in 1707, you'd've been seen as somewhat of an unsophisticate. — What is now the "beautiful and elegant" language of Italian was once the crude Latin of the "common people" — no one now would say that Italian or Spanish is a poor man's Latin.
Here's my 2c:
Spoken languages change much faster than written ones. As soon as a language starts being written down, "official" rules of proper grammar and syntax are created for it, which stagnates that change.
Also, there is a tendency to put more thought into written language than spoken language: someone writing a novel will pay more attention to what words he's using than someone buying a big-mac: few people speak as well as they write.
Not to mention: up until now, people have been writing things they meant to preserve for a long time.
What is happening now, which has never happened before, is that people are writing things that are not meant to last. People are not writing long letters to loved ones who live miles away that will be received days after they have been written and are meant to be read and re-read carefully and kept for a long time: people are chatting— writing things that are meant to be read once, then tossed away instantly.
In other words: people are writing at the speed in which they speak. This is bound to affect things.
I doubt we'll be seeing this in the next generation of English schoolbooks:
But we can't expect language to remain unaffected by the internet.
That said, I do think that some people's English is inexcusably atrocious: bad to the point where they can't even express themselves properly when they have to, or can't comprehend anything written at a level of English higher than what you would find in this month's MAD Magazine's Monroe strip.
But it's unfair to call these people idiots— they are not (at least many of them aren't)— it's because they are uneducated... or rather: they have not been properly educated.
I know I complain a lot about the school system. But it truly is terrible terrible terrible. So here I go again!
I don't blame the teachers; I've had some great teachers, many of whom were also horrified by the crap they were made to teach (my English teacher was especially critical of the school system).
How can it be that I graduated with an A in academic English and still my knowledge of the language was basic at best? (I don't know if in the US it's the same, but here they separate applied English from academic English... I can't imagine what students are learning [if anything at all] in applied English classes).
I took the mandatory literacy test three years after arriving to this country. I passed it with a perfect score: I cannot stress enough how EASY and BASIC this test is. Yet how can it be that so many local students fail it! I remember watching the news and students complaining about it being too HARD ! they were actually considering making it easier to accommodate the amount of students who were failing it!
here's a fringe idea: HOW ABOUT TEACHING BETTER ENGLISH.
Truth is they've made school too easy, and students are not being pushed nearly enough. Many classes that should be mandatory aren't: math beyond basic arithmetic, academic english, science, biology, physics.
Of course a teenager doesn't want to do those things! of course, as a 14 year old, all I and most of the other kids cared about was trying to get girls and see if we can get someone to buy us alcohol... and there's a reason for this: teenagers are morons! I was a moron, my friends were morons, and the vast majority of my schoolmates were morons — but that's exactly WHY teenagers need to be pushed into higher learning.
I think it's laughable that I graduated as an A student and basically learned nothing. It dawned on me a few weeks ago as I was reading brief biographies of my favorite authors— those from older generations like Poe or even Joyce: all these people were got out of school speaking Latin and French, knowing science and math, and already writing beautifully... what happened to our schools?
once more: ugh.
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