Raising indices in curved space

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the manipulation of tensor indices in curved space, particularly in the context of differentiating tensors and deriving Maxwell's Equations from a Lagrangian. Participants explore the implications of raising indices and the role of the metric tensor in these operations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is valid to raise an index on a tensor being differentiated, specifically asking if g^{\mu\lambda}\partial^\nu(F_{\mu\nu}) equals \partial^\nu(F^\lambda_\nu).
  • Another participant asserts that this is only true if the metric tensor is independent of x_{\nu}, suggesting a condition for the validity of the operation.
  • A participant expresses confusion while attempting to derive Maxwell's Equations, noting that varying with respect to \delta A_\lambda introduces metrics and leads to complex terms involving derivatives of the metric tensor.
  • Another participant proposes an alternative variation involving g_{\mu b}g_{\nu a}F^{ab}F^{\mu\nu} to see if it yields different insights.
  • A participant reflects on the potential equivalence of their original method and the use of covariant derivatives, referencing a Wikipedia article that suggests extra terms from covariant derivatives would cancel out.
  • One participant shares a reference to a paper titled "Maxwell’s Equations In a Gravitational Field" by Andrew E. Blechman, which may provide additional context or insights.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of raising indices in the context of differentiation and the implications of using covariant derivatives. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence of their arguments on the independence of the metric tensor and the complexity introduced by varying tensors in curved space. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the treatment of indices.

bdforbes
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In curved space, can I raise an index on a tensor that is being differentiated? Ie, is the following true?

[tex]g^{\mu\lambda}\partial^\nu(F_{\mu\nu})=\partial^\nu(F^\lambda_\nu)[/tex]
 
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Only if the metric tensor is independent of [itex]x_{\nu}[/itex].
 
This is troubling. I'm trying to obtain Maxwell's Equations from the Lagrangian, and since we have indices both up and down ie [itex]F^{\mu\nu}F_{\mu\nu}[/itex], varying with respect to [itex]\delta A_\lambda[/itex] inevitably introduces metrics:

[tex]\delta F^{\mu\nu}=\partial^\mu g^{\nu\lambda}\delta A_\lambda - \partial^\nu g^{\mu\lambda}\delta A_\lambda[/tex]

Integrating a term:

[tex]\int d^4x\sqrt{-g}(\delta F^{\mu\nu} \delta F_{\mu\nu})[/tex]
[tex]= \int d^4x\sqrt{-g}\left[\partial^\mu(g^{\nu\lambda}\delta A_\lambda)F_{\mu\nu} - \partial^\nu(g^{\mu\lambda}\delta A_\lambda)F_{\mu\nu}\right][/tex]
[tex]= \int d^4x\sqrt{-g}(g^{\mu\lambda} \partial^\nu F_{\mu\nu} - g^{\nu\lambda} \partial^\mu F_{\mu\nu})\delta A_\lambda[/tex]

And now I have these terms which are confusing me.
 
What happens if you vary

[tex]g_{\mu b}g_{\nu a}F^{ab}F^{\mu\nu}[/tex]

instead ?
 
Last edited:
I will try that, but I suspect it is equivalent.
If I had used covariant derivatives the whole time, there would be no problem. But here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations_in_curved_spacetime#Summary
it states that the extra terms introduced by using covariant derivatives would cancel out. So maybe my original method is fine.
Of course, I was stupid to overlook look this fact:
[tex]\delta F^{\mu\nu} F_{\mu\nu}=\delta F_{\mu\nu} F^{\mu\nu}[/tex]
 
This may interest you.

"Maxwell’s Equations In a Gravitational Field" by Andrew E. Blechman
 

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