Random: Any way to calculate Transcendental numbers using abacus?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the possibility of calculating transcendental numbers, such as cos(17), using a Japanese abacus. It includes considerations of mathematical techniques like Taylor and Maclaurin series, as well as the theoretical implications of using an abacus for such calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that approximating cos(17) might involve the Taylor expansion, expressing uncertainty about the method.
  • Another participant mentions a resource that aims to teach advanced calculations on an abacus, including sines and cosines, indicating potential for such calculations.
  • A different participant asserts that transcendental quantities can be calculated to any precision on an abacus, drawing a parallel between abacuses and electronic computers in terms of state transitions.
  • It is noted that any decimal approximation is a rational number, and thus any rational number can be calculated on an abacus, implying that transcendental numbers can be approximated.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the algorithms needed for calculating powers of numbers, indicating a gap in knowledge regarding practical implementation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of confidence regarding the ability to calculate transcendental numbers on an abacus. While some propose methods and affirm the possibility, others remain uncertain about specific algorithms and techniques.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific algorithms, such as those for powers and series expansions, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in the mathematical capabilities of traditional calculation methods, the use of abacuses in advanced mathematics, and those curious about the theoretical implications of calculating transcendental numbers.

Pinu7
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For example is it possible to approximate cos(17) using a Japanese abacus?
Even if it takes a while. I'd imagine it would have to do with the Taylor expansion or something but I'm not sure.

I think it is important because one day calculators will turn against us in the 2014 robotic uprising.
 
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Welcome to PF!

Pinu7 said:
For example is it possible to approximate cos(17) using a Japanese abacus?
Even if it takes a while. I'd imagine it would have to do with the Taylor expansion or something but I'm not sure.

I think it is important because one day calculators will turn against us in the 2014 robotic uprising.

Hi Pinu7! Welcome to PF! :smile:

There's a work-in-progress series of lessons on the traditional abacus by Derrick Coetzee at http://moonflare.com/abacus/index.html which should soon have cosines …
In the advanced sections of this guide, I will demonstrate how to go beyond all traditional usage, and compute sines, cosines, fractional exponents, logs, and other functions never thought calculatable using an abacus. This is what makes this tutorial unique.

… let's hope he finishes it before 2014! :biggrin:
 
Yes, you can calculate transcendental quantities with an abacus, to any precision you desire. An electronic computer is very similar to an abacus, in that it has finite states with a deterministic means of moving from one state to another. You could probably back-adapt the algorithms used by computers onto an abacus if you're so inclined.

- Warren
 
Any decimal approximation to a number is a rational number and it is possible to calculate any rational number on an abacus. Thus, you can approximate any number on an abacus.
 
Well, I am still unsure how exactly to calculate some of these basic numbers. I guess I could use the Maclaurin series for some of them. However, I can't find an algorithm for finding powers of numbers that are needed.

Perhaps, my dream of defeating our robotic overlords is doomed. :'(
 

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