Rate of work done by F on charge carrier with average velocity v

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the rate of work done by a force on a charge carrier moving with an average velocity. Participants explore the relationship between force, work, and power, particularly in the context of electric fields and charge carriers in resistors. The discussion includes mathematical formulations and definitions related to work and power.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references a snippet from a textbook that states the work done by a force on a charge carrier is given by ##F \cdot v## and questions how this formulation is derived.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical derivation showing that the rate of work done can be expressed as ##\frac{dW}{dt} = \vec{F}(\vec{r}(t)) \cdot \vec{v}(t)##.
  • A different participant agrees with the mathematical approach and simplifies it by stating that power is defined as the rate of work done, leading to the conclusion that ##P = \vec{F} \cdot \vec{v}##.
  • Some participants challenge the use of a "high-school definition of work," suggesting that the approach may not be general enough.
  • There is a contention regarding the definition of power, with participants emphasizing that it is the rate at which work is done, not a definition of work itself.
  • One participant introduces the idea that energy can be transferred in ways other than work, such as through heat, suggesting a broader perspective on energy transfer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and generality of the approaches used to derive the rate of work done. There is no consensus on the most appropriate or general definition of work and power, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the definitions and approaches discussed may depend on the context and could be limited in scope, particularly regarding the generality of the definitions of work and power.

zenterix
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TL;DR
I am reading the book Electricity and Magnetism by Purcell and Morin. In Chapter 4, entitled "Electric Currents", there is a small section 4.8 called "Energy Dissipation in Current Flow". I'd like to understand a certain snippet from this section.
In the book Electricity and Magnetism by Purcell and Morin, there is the following snippet

The flow of current in a resistor involves the dissipation of energy. If it takes a force ##\vec{F}## to push a charge carrier along with average velocity ##\vec{v}##, any agency that accomplishes this must do work ##F\cdot v##. If an electric field E is driving the ion of charge ##q##, then ##\vec{F}=q\vec{E}##, and the rate at which work is done is ##q\vec{E}\cdot\vec{v}##.

My question is how to arrive at ##\vec{F}\cdot\vec{v}## as the rate that work is done?
 
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After writing out the question I realized that

$$W=\int_C \vec{F}\cdot d\vec{r}$$

$$=\int_{t_0}^{t} \vec{F}(\vec{r}(t))\cdot \vec{v}(t)dt$$

and so

$$\frac{dW}{dt}=\vec{F}(\vec{r}(t))\cdot \vec{v}(t)$$
 
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zenterix said:
After writing out the question I realized that

$$W=\int_C \vec{F}\cdot d\vec{r}$$

$$=\int_{t_0}^{t} \vec{F}(\vec{r}(t))\cdot \vec{v}(t)dt$$

and so

$$\frac{dW}{dt}=\vec{F}(\vec{r}(t))\cdot \vec{v}(t)$$
This is correct.

There is a simpler and more understandable approach.
The rate at which work is done is power by definition, so:

## P = \frac {dW} {dt} = \frac {d} {dt} (\vec F \cdot \vec r) = \vec F \cdot \frac {d\vec r} {dt} = \vec F \cdot \vec v ##

.
 
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Gavran said:
There is a simpler and more understandable approach.

Which is not general since you used a very narrow, high-school definition of work.
 
weirdoguy said:
Which is not general since you used a very narrow, high-school definition of work.
Power is the rate at which work is done is definition of power, not of work. This definition was used here to make the answer to the question how to arrive at ## \vec F \cdot \vec v ## as the rate that work is done more complete.
 
Gavran said:
Power is the rate at which work is done is definition of power, not of work.

I know, but you used high-school definition of work: ##\vec{F}\cdot\vec{r}##. Thus your approach is not general. @zenterix approach is the most general.
 
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Gavran said:
is definition of power

Also, the more general definition is the rate at which energy is transferred. Work is not the only way to transfer energy, there is also heat.
 

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