Recovering (?) from a fight in a relationship

[ergospherical]

Won't go into specifics, but we got into a bit of an argument (originally over some quite harmless things mentioned by some of my friends at dinner) resulting in me walking out at around midnight and ignoring her calls. When I got back home she was crying outside so I went to comfort her and to some extent we made up, but there's a pretty bad lingering awkwardness and she hasn't been responding to any of my messages today. I think she's still worried that she upset me, and I still feel terrible for leaving her behind like that. I haven't been able to study today and spent a lot of the day in the gym trying to clear my mind. Am slightly annoyed with my friends, myself, etc. Any advice?

 

[Office_Shredder]

I noticed you never said you apologized for what you did. That seems like a pretty good place to start. Don't try to sugarcoat it either, if you think you did something terrible and try to dance around it she'll think you thought it wasn't that bad.

 

[fresh_42]

Are you asking where to get cheap roses, or do you want to know my favorite whisky brand?

I have no idea about the former, the latter is Lagavulin.

 

[bob012345]

In the long run it would help you to understand your own tendencies in order to head off future angry responses. Maybe talk things over with a counselor.

 

[hutchphd]

I will tell you the obvious:
If you made her feel bad over some trivial stuff you need to apologize for that. But it behooves you both to figure out what the argument was really about or you will have the same damned argument again (and again). Do the hard work here, if you have the commitment.

 

[Astronuc]

me walking out at around midnight and ignoring her calls.

Not a good or wise choice.

to some extent we made up, but there's a pretty bad lingering awkwardness and she hasn't been responding to any of my messages today.

something is left unfinished/unresolved.

I still feel terrible for leaving her behind like that.

She needs to hear that from one.

Any advice?

Be honest with her, and communicate, even if one gets the 'silent' treatment.

One should explain why one did not respond to the texts from one's significant person. Silence, or lack of response, is not beneficial to a relationship, but have done that, the remedy is open and honest communication. One also has to understand the distress/hurt that one experienced in response to whatever was said in the heat of the moment. Explain to the other party why one did not respond to the other's messages/calls.

Above all, be honest with oneself and one's partner in the relationship.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I think she's still worried that she upset me

Um...shouldn't you be worrying about whether you upset her?

 

[hutchphd]

Any advice?

I will tell you the obvious:

One more obvious thing:
You can only change your own behavior. Put your energy there. If you each can do that, it is all you can do.

 

[pinball1970]

Me walking out at around midnight and ignoring her calls... Any advice?

Advice? Honestly?
Avoid relationships, men and women were not meant to be together.

However if you are young and absolutely feel you must then you have to decide which type of guy you are.

1/If you don’t like drama, hysteria, incoherent or irrelevant arguments, emotional blackmail and other unreasonable behaviour, then the chances are you are the type to stick your guns in an argument and to hell with the consequences.

Or...

2/If you can put up with all that stuff, take a deep breath then say sorry even though you were in the right, then just get her a big bunch of flowers and chocolate and make up, she will get over it.

It is impossible to be both guys at the same time though.
Walking at midnight plus gym to clear your head for me indicates guy one.

A word of warning too, guy two can turn into guy one given enough time and arguments.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Advice? Honestly?
Avoid relationships, men and women were not meant to be together.

However if you are young and absolutely feel you must then you have to decide which type of guy you are.

1/If you don’t like drama, hysteria, incoherent or irrelevant arguments, emotional blackmail and other unreasonable behaviour, then the chances are you are the type to stick your guns in an argument and to hell with the consequences.

Or...

2/If you can put up with all that stuff, take a deep breath then say sorry even though you were in the right, then just get her a big bunch of flowers and chocolate and make up, she will get over it.

It is impossible to be both guys at the same time though.
Walking at midnight plus gym to clear your head for me indicates guy one.

A word of warning too, guy two can turn into guy one given enough time and arguments.

I don't know, refusing to talk to your significant other after a fight and leaving them hanging about whether you're still a couple kind of sounds like emotional blackmail to me.

Edit to add: actually, I realized I gave bad advice in my first post. Ergo says the fight was over a harmless comment. I bet your girlfriend didn't think it was harmless. You should reflect on this discrepancy - if you can't understand why they thought it was harmful, you might have a lot of additional fights like this. A healthy relationship can't include constantly minimizing and dismissing the feelings of the other person when you disagree with them or find it inconvenient.

 

[hutchphd]

However if you are young and absolutely feel you must then you have to decide which type of guy you are.

Wow, you have described the gamut of possible behaviors from "A" to "B". If this truly describes the possible range of male behaviors then your admonition to avoid all encumbering alliances actually makes perfect sense.
I think it a pretty narrow view.

 

[pinball1970]

Wow, you have described the gamut of possible behaviors from "A" to "B". If this truly describes the possible range of male behaviors then your admonition to avoid all encumbering alliances actually makes perfect sense.
I think it a pretty narrow view.

What are the options given the situation?

Agree he was wrong make up. No consideration on who was actually at fault, making up is priority number one.

Fight, she was wrong and you are not letting it go.

Pretendend he was wrong apologize anyway, for everything and make up whilst quietly seething.

The seething will fade until the next argument then you have three options.

That may sound like three options but it really is two outcomes eventually.

Lets try and keep this civil, I have never been impolite or insulting to anyone on the site to my knowledge.

 

[hutchphd]

No personal incivility was intended. I was merely pointing out that the analysis was oversimplified and not adequate to the situation. You clearly disagree.

 

[gleem]

If you made her feel bad over some trivial stuff you need to apologize for that. But it behooves you both to figure out what the argument was really about

This is worth emphasizing.

Counselors have seen this time and again. Arguments are often not about what you are arguing about but a way of expressing dissatisfaction with another issue. The arguments may seem to be about nothing important to one person except the desire to win allowing the issue to foment further. In any relationship, at least one person must act like an adult at any given time.

The issue may be so important to the person that there is a fear that bringing it up directly may not be accepted by the other and threaten the relationship.

 

[PeroK]

There's a film called Bandits with Billy Bob Thornton and his character says something like: There are guys that leave and there are guys that get left. And it don't take too much figuring which one I am.

That perhaps expresses the dichotomy that @pinball1970 is referring to.

 

[hutchphd]

There are guys that leave and there are guys that get left. And it don't take too much figuring which one I am.

That perhaps expresses the dichotomy that @pinball1970 is referring to.

Nice quote: I do like Billy Bob Thornton.
But I think it a self-fulfilling prophecy and not a particularly useful analysis tool.

 

[fresh_42]

People are not pc. They do have categories and with it expectations. Either you fit in the expected category (extremely rare), or you grow together into a category (possible until 25). This leaves us with the overwhelming majority: she thinks I will get him adjusted to my category. This always fails, of course, since people do not change. The question is only which option will be drawn: trying for years (normal), divorce (normal), accepting the other one as he/she is (rare), or the arrangement of two separate lives (occasionally).

 

[morrobay]

I would say this is her problem. She is reacting irrationally / arguing over harmless things.

 

[Lnewqban]

Won't go into specifics, but we got into a bit of an argument (originally over some quite harmless things mentioned by some of my friends at dinner) resulting in me walking out at around midnight and ignoring her calls. ...Am slightly annoyed with my friends, myself, etc. Any advice?

Did you support, defend, or agree with your friends in that argument?
Why did you walked out at around midnight and ignore her calls?

Understanding the reasons behind what you said and did is way more important than being right or wrong or annoyed.

 

[fresh_42]

Understanding the reasons behind what you said and did is way more important than being right or wrong or annoyed.

Sic! I would even say: right or wrong is completely irrelevant. It rarely is about an actual argument, it is always about something else and is usually well hidden.

Your friend is a flat-earther? So what? Do you want to write a paper with him/her?

 

[Arjan82]

I think a right start is to stop assuming anything about her thoughts, emotions or whatever. Just go to her and say exactly what you said in your first thread. You feel bad because this or that reason, and see her response. If she ignores you, say you feel ignored. If she isn't willing to solve anything, that's a problem, just say that that's a problem for you. If it is of course, you might also want to buy a very big rug to shove it all under, but I can personally attest to that being a very, very bad idea if you want to keep your sanity.

I always think about something I read about the marital status of people and how happy they were (newspaper science). Maried people with kids were happiest, without kids a little less happy, singles below that, but at the rock bottom were people in a bad relationship.

 

[Lnewqban]

"Adapt yourself to the things among which your lot has been cast and love sincerely the fellow creatures with whom destiny has ordained that you shall live."

"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."

"Let it be your constant method to look into the design of people's actions, and see what they would be at, as often as it is practicable; and to make this custom the more significant, practice it first upon yourself."

- Marcus Aurelius

 

[PeroK]

"Adapt yourself to the things among which your lot has been cast and love sincerely the fellow creatures with whom destiny has ordained that you shall live."

"When you arise in the morning, think of what a precious privilege it is to be alive - to breathe, to think, to enjoy, to love."

"Let it be your constant method to look into the design of people's actions, and see what they would be at, as often as it is practicable; and to make this custom the more significant, practice it first upon yourself."

- Marcus Aurelius

Was he a Roman marriage guidance counsellor?

 

[Bandersnatch]

Was he a Roman marriage guidance counsellor?

I hear he was mostly writing self-help books. His professional background was in some managerial position.

 

[PeroK]

I hear he was mostly writing self-help books. His professional background was in some managerial position.

I wouldn't trust his parenting advice, given how Commodus turned out!

 

[Bandersnatch]

given how Commodus turned out!

I don't know about that. Wasn't he an actor? I remember him from that sports film alongside Russel Crowe.

 

[pinball1970]

I would say this is her problem. She is reacting irrationally / arguing over harmless things.

I think this is missing the point a little bit but this is worth noting. What is harmless to me may not be harmless to her.

'You have put a bit of weight on babe, still love you though give me a kiss."
That to me is less harmless than, "When did you start wearing glasses?"
One indicates an interest in her well being, attractiveness to you and a constant evaluation of certain parameters, the second does not. It is like you have been asleep for the relationship and hardly care.
The second comment may get an incredulous look and a pillow in your direction.
The first comment? Try it. See what happens.

Why highlight this? This goes back to men women relationships and why they do not work. A bigger picture, biology verses social evolution story.
If relationships did work then divorce would be a small % but it is not where women have a choice in their lives.
Also people who do not get divorced ≠ content.

Perhaps people put up with things? Divorce is also not cheap. Worth noting.


I have data on my side, explain the data.

 

[hutchphd]

This entire colloquy has produced an incredulous look on my face...just so you know

 

[fresh_42]

This entire colloquy has produced an incredulous look on my face...just so you know

... reminds of ...

 

[pinball1970]

This entire colloquy has produced an incredulous look on my face...just so you know

In the words of Sean Carroll, 'i do not know how to refute an incredulous stare.'
I think he took that from someone else.

Seriously though, this thread has raised an important question. It has biological implications, selfish genes and evolution.
Couple that with social change which does not need to be political in my view.

We just need a framing of a question that is palatable and has a Scientific basis.
Without members getting too excited.

Gut feeling though? Berkman will step in with "thread closed for moderation"
Then...

Then we can reflect.

 

[PeroK]

This entire colloquy has produced an incredulous look on my face...just so you know

What does your wife think?

 

[fresh_42]

Gut feeling though? Berkman will step in with "thread closed for moderation"
Then...

Well, the topic has changed from a specific situation to a general discussion about mainly classical relationships. This is a bottomless barrel. It literally fills libraries! So we could either go on forever or close it since it probably won't reveal any new, and nothing we didn't already have a song for, or someone knows an example. Furthermore, we even already faced a loss of contenance.

Be prepared that one of us will do the inevitable. Means: it is on hold until the previous question will be answered since it is a bit unfair to close a thread with an open question.

 

[pinball1970]

Well, the topic has changed from a specific situation to a general discussion about mainly classical relationships. This is a bottomless barrel. It literally fills libraries! So we could either go on forever or close it since it probably won't reveal any new, and nothing we didn't already have a song for, or someone knows an example. Furthermore, we even already faced a loss of contenance.

Be prepared that one of us will do the inevitable. Means: it is on hold until the previous question will be answered since it is a bit unfair to close a thread with an open question.

That's a point.
Where is @ergospherical ? Did you get her roses or what?

 

[Jarvis323]

If relationships did work then divorce would be a small % but it is not where women have a choice in their lives.

There's a simple model for each of us to explain our experiences and some data, and then there is the truth, which is always more complicated.

I think in relationships, of all kinds between people, being cognitive of that is important. The issue is the assumptions we make to satisfy our model leads us to falsely represent the people we apply them to, and nobody likes to be misrepresented and misunderstood.

So I would say, don't assume to know how the other person sees things or feels, and at least don't rely on simple models, or stereotypes. Furthermore, I think it is best to give the other person in the relationship some freedom to have their own views, or to be upset or annoyed about something, even if you don't understand it. Rather than fighting them and trying to invalidate their point of view, either internally or externally, it is better to just be open and compassionate. And if there is some hidden cause for their dissatisfaction that isn't clear, and you don't know what it is, and you want to ameliorate that, you can at least just try to just be nice and helpful.

 

[256bits]

I would say this is her problem. She is reacting irrationally / arguing over harmless things.

Well he doesn't say whether he has known her for 2 days, 2 weeks , 2 months. ...
No reference to the depth of their relationship and commitment.
Not knowing ( actually it is irrelevant ) , and the fact that she is complaining about HIS friends, I would trust that your advice is sound and proper. From the little information given ( isn't it always the case ), it would seem as if she is starting a control part rather subtly.
She should be buying him flowers and apologizing to him for her behavior.

 

[pinball1970]

Well he doesn't say whether he has known her for 2 days, 2 weeks , 2 months. ...
No reference to the depth of their relationship and commitment.
Not knowing ( actually it is irrelevant ) , and the fact that she is complaining about HIS friends, I would trust that your advice is sound and proper. From the little information given ( isn't it always the case ), it would seem as if she is starting a control part rather subtly.
She should be buying him flowers and apologizing to him for her behavior.

Like I said, @ergospherical needs to take her to dinner, one on one. No mates, Italian. Book it not somewhere cheap so she knows you mean business.
Do not mention the argument till she has had her starter or main if possible.
Start apologizing after her first glass of wine is best. Get it out of the way.
Guaranteed 15 minutes from her, don't interrupt that means you want her to stop talking. Take the tears. Arm on her shoulder, you adore this lady yes?
Friday is best she will be more relaxed, lectures finished till Monday as us work.

 

[hutchphd]

Furthermore, we even already faced a loss of contenance.

OK I initially read this as a loss of continence which pretty well disqualifies me from future input!
I trust @ergospherical has the good sense to proceed carefully and deliberately.

 

[fresh_42]

OK I initially read this as a loss of continence which pretty well disqualifies me from future input!
I trust @ergospherical has the good sense to proceed carefully and deliberately.

In a way, it means the same thing, however, in a completely different context. Losing contenance sounds so much better than losing composure or control. Google translate can't even handle it. (I ended up with capacity or version if I make the way through German.)

 

[Vanadium 50]

You have put a bit of weight on babe

]

 

[OCR]

Best advice you could ever get. . .We believe in happy endings - Emmylou Harris & Earl Thomas Conley .

.

 

[russ_watters]

I would say this is her problem. She is reacting irrationally / arguing over harmless things.

You're not necessarily wrong(there's no way for us to interpret and we only have the OP's biased judgement), but what you describe is a recipe for a failed relationship. And even if you/he are correct his reaction was still wrong. OP has to decide if her feelings matter to him or not, and if the answer is no, just make a clean break. Responding with gamesmanship is cruel and counterproductive.

 

[russ_watters]

Not knowing ( actually it is irrelevant ) , and the fact that she is complaining about HIS friends, I would trust that your advice is sound and proper. From the little information given ( isn't it always the case ), it would seem as if she is starting a control part rather subtly.
She should be buying him flowers and apologizing to him for her behavior.

Maybe. But I once dated a girl who was pretty quiet and the first time my friends met her they reacted by trying to provoke her by being loudmouth jackasses. Her fault?

 

[256bits]

Like I said, @ergospherical needs to take her to dinner, one on one. No mates, Italian. Book it not somewhere cheap so she knows you mean business.
Do not mention the argument till she has had her starter or main if possible.
Start apologizing after her first glass of wine is best. Get it out of the way.
Guaranteed 15 minutes from her, don't interrupt that means you want her to stop talking. Take the tears. Arm on her shoulder, you adore this lady yes?
Friday is best she will be more relaxed, lectures finished till Monday as us work.

That is quite man-centric.

Certainly it takes two to tango.
How the argument started is indeterminate at this point.
It is the continuation though that led to the emotional response of the OP.
To walk away might have been a good thing. The hurtful communication de-escalated immediately.

No responding to her calls might not have been - he could have responded there by saying he needed a break, he is fine, hope she is fine, and we will talk about it later hun. No worries babe.
So, if he wants to apologize it should be over the silent treatment that he gave her - that is the worst bit.

Her mind was probably going crazy, driving her nuts, and I think that is what she resents the most.
[ Could it be she is giving it back the same way to him - game playing perhaps/perhaps not - you, or rather, they decide ]
Not the argument, not who was a winner/looser but being ignored as if she was non-existent.
Not a way to win someone's heart.

[ ever wonder why your mom yelled at you for not calling were you were - typically the same - she was worried about you, and for some the worst that could ever happen goes through their mind -you got hit by a bus and now you are lying in a gutter and need help - not all people are like that but the not knowing if you are safe is the worst ]

Just as an aside,
By the way, if a pattern is introduced such as hurt-apologize-forgive- make up, hurt-apologize-forgive make up, there is a lot of words on potential abusive relationships from either partner that end up being extremely toxic in that regard - perhaps exciting and some can stand it, others can't, for the long term.

 

[256bits]

Maybe. But I once dated a girl who was pretty quiet and the first time my friends met her they reacted by trying to provoke her by being loudmouth jackasses. Her fault?

Was she brought out of her shell by that treatment, and brought into feeling that she was the group?
I don't see any fault there yet, unless she objected and they didn't quit.
Then yes they could be labelled as jerks.

 

[russ_watters]

Was she brought out of her shell by that treatment, and brought into feeling that she was the group?
I don't see any fault there yet, unless she objected and they didn't quit.
Then yes they could be labelled as jerks.

That was our last date. No, she didn't appreciate it.

 

[pinball1970]

This entire colloquy has produced an incredulous look on my face...just so you know

I wanted some divorce numbers, some justification for my advice to Ergo

42% divorce rate UK in 50% USA (Average cost UK is £14,561)

20 to 40% of married men and 20 to 25% of married women extra marital affairs

1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men over the age of 18 have been the victim of physical domestic violence

Almost 50% of both sexes have experienced some form of domestic psychological aggression.

Also Studies on filicide, Parricide, femicide and Uxoricide.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/26/femicide-us-silent-epidemic

https://pure.roehampton.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/448033/CCJ_Pre_Published_Holt2017.pdf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5282617/

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime/UN_BriefFem_251121.pdfhttps://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/978-1-137-56276-0_11

 

[Office_Shredder]

The divorce date varies a lot depending on economic and social factors. The divorce rate for college graduates is only 30%. I suspect the domestic violence numbers etc are also pretty skewed though I haven't checked.

Besides that, marriage for life is a really high standard. Getting married for twenty five years, raising three kids then splitting amicably is considered a failure, but should it?

 

[PeroK]

Besides that, marriage for life is a really high standard. Getting married for twenty five years, raising three kids then splitting amicably is considered a failure, but should it?

It is if you've taken a solemn vow "until death do us part".

 

[pinball1970]

The divorce date varies a lot depending on economic and social factors. The divorce rate for college graduates is only 30%. I suspect the domestic violence numbers etc are also pretty skewed though I haven't checked.

Besides that, marriage for life is a really high standard. Getting married for twenty five years, raising three kids then splitting amicably is considered a failure, but should it?

Yes I think that is also the case. If you are poor, on benefits (social) live in an area where there is high crime, low education/aspirations, drugs and gangs then all those negative connotations will be there in those marriages and relationships.

More well off people will do better, a third rather than half get divorced.

30% failure rate, I suppose that's better than every other one?
Would you be ok with a 30% failure rate in your development projects at work? Your research?

Over your career?

This is a question I am thinking about framing and it is nothing to do with divorce rates.
It is to do with my OP to the OP

 

[Vanadium 50]

I would also argue a high divorce rate is not a good reason for one party to act like a grad A jackass.