Refraction and splitting of a photon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of refraction, specifically addressing the underlying reasons for its occurrence rather than just the results described by Snell's Law. Participants explore various levels of explanation, from classical to quantum perspectives, and consider the implications of photon behavior during refraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a clear explanation of "why" refraction occurs, expressing confusion over the lack of foundational reasoning in available resources.
  • Another participant suggests that light follows the quickest possible path, which leads to Snell's Law, indicating a simpler explanation for refraction.
  • A more complex explanation involves quantum effects at the molecular level, with references to Feynman's all-possible-paths approach.
  • One participant argues that photons do not need to be split during refraction; instead, they can take different paths, resulting in the observed bending of light.
  • Discussion also touches on the concept of dispersion, where different wavelengths change speed differently when transitioning between media.
  • Another participant mentions that understanding refraction does not require knowledge of photons, as the laws can be derived from experimental observations of wave behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of considering photons in the explanation of refraction. While some advocate for a quantum perspective, others emphasize classical wave behavior. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understand the phenomenon.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the level of detail in explanations varies, and the discussion includes references to both classical and quantum mechanics without reaching a consensus on which is more appropriate for understanding refraction.

karen_lorr
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I wonder if someone could help with me with this.

I understand Snells Law and I can also work out various refractions in different media by using C.

But “why” does refraction occur.

Every website I look at (inc Wiki) gives the results of refraction (e.g. Snell’) not the reason. They will talk about what happens when light with XYZ refractive Index inter-reacts with another at ABC RI.

But none of them explain “Why”.

I assume that a photon is an elemental particle (not getting into duality here by the way). So if it elemental “how” can it be split/dispersed.

At the interface some wavelengths will pass through the intersection at a certain speed and other wavelengths will pass at others – so you get bending. OK I can understand this “if” the photon could be split, as it meant to be elemental it should really, should it?

I wonder if someone would be kind enough to the offer a clear and simple explain of “why” refraction occurs (not the results of it).

What is actually happening?

Or is there a website that would give this and do you have a link.

Thank you
 
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hi karen! :smile:

"why" depends on the level of detail you want

the simplest "why" is that light follows the quickest possible path, and you can easily prove that that means it must follow snell's law at any boundary

the most complicated "why" involves considering the quantum effects of each individual molecule

in between, we can assume that media are continuous … then the quantum effects boil down to the all-possible-paths approach, which in turn (feynman's description of this is best) favours the quickest possible path :wink:
 
He needs the quantum version because of:
At the interface some wavelengths will pass through the intersection at a certain speed and other wavelengths will pass at others – so you get bending. OK I can understand this “if” the photon could be split, as it meant to be elemental it should really, should it?
... which means go watch the feynman lectures on youtube.

The descripton of reflection is easier to follow but refraction works the same way.
The photon don't need to be split at all - some go one way and some go another way and when they all add up at some detector the brightest bit is what's predicted by Snell's law. Some photons travel the other ways as well which can be demonstrated by carefully blocking off some of the material.

With mirrors it's dramatic - you can get a stronger refection by removing most of the mirror (but only for one colour).
 
What is difference b/w unpolarized light and depolarized light?
 
zafar said:
What is difference b/w unpolarized light and depolarized light?

Nothing, really, in this instance. The sums work for radio waves, which are, very often plane polarised. Birefringence makes things more complicated but that's the next level up, I think.
 
The explanation really does depend on the level you are interested in !
You do not need to know anything about photons to come up with (discover by experiment) the laws of refraction.
Basically waves change speed when they travel from one medium to another medium.
Different wavelengths change speed by different amounts... this is called 'dispersion'
One fascinating feature (mentioned by tiny tim) is that the paths taken by waves fits with the principle that the waves will take the least time to get from one point to the next. It is easy to prove that this fits with observed effects and the best BY FAR book to read to get you deeper into this is Feynman's ...title escapes me... I will find the title.
Found it...''QED- the strange theory of light and matter.''
 
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