Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Relative cost of some alloys

Tags:
  1. Dec 30, 2014 #1

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Does anyone have an approximate idea of the relative cost of the following allows / metals:

    Titanium
    SS904L
    2205 Duplex Steel
    6Mo (Super Austentic Stainless Steel)
    Alloy 400
    SS316L (just as a convenient reference price)

    Of course, I'm not looking for accuracy just approximate price ratios.

    Context: For an high temperature application involving Sodium Chloride all these seem potential options (except SS316L) and in a preliminary evaluation I am trying to figure out some cost factors.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 30, 2014 #2

    Simon Bridge

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member
    2016 Award

    Have you tried canvassig manufacturers?
    i.e. Titanium metal trades at around US$680/100g - you can get that from a traders index. Different traders will have different prices of course.
    But I suspect you don't just want an ingot: the cost varies with how you want it.
     
  4. Dec 31, 2014 #3

    SteamKing

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    Not sure where this price for titanium comes from, nor what the quality of the metal is. Whatever, it is an enormously inflated price.

    Even so called .999 fine titanium bullion can be purchased for about US $80/kg, and industrial grades of Ti can be had much cheaper.

    http://www.providentmetals.com/bull...nt/art-bars-rounds/titanium-bullion-bars.html

    A price of $6.80/gram would severely limit the use of Ti for industrial purposes. It has a prominent role in aircraft production and some marine applications. It was also once used as a pigment in white paint in the form of titanium dioxide TiO2.
     
  5. Dec 31, 2014 #4

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Thanks! No I haven't tried talking with the manufacturers yet. Like you say it is a good idea. I will.

    Ingot cost should be perfectly fine. Sheet cost roughly varies in that proportion I think; so at current levels of accuracy ingot cost is good. Problem is that for stuff like SS904 I don't know any approximate ingot estimates even.

    That's what I'm hoping someone on the forum might know.
     
  6. Dec 31, 2014 #5

    Simon Bridge

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member
    2016 Award

    I may have misplaced a decimal point :)
    Note: don't need to phone the actual people - the suppliers usually have web sites.
     
  7. Dec 31, 2014 #6

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    This 2013 article quotes a price of $6 per kg for Titanium. You think it is right?

    Intuitively sounded too low to me.

    http://www.gizmag.com/titanium-metal-electrowinning/29337/
     
  8. Dec 31, 2014 #7

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Yes I know. :)

    That's what I've been trying but it's terribly hard to get pricing info. for the more exotic alloys. Try it! :)

    Properties? Now those are easy. :)
     
  9. Dec 31, 2014 #8

    SteamKing

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    A price of US $6.00/kg is in the range for titanium metal in 'sponge' form, which is how the metal is produced from current refining methods and before it is alloyed.

    Although titanium is more expensive than other structural materials, it is not so expensive that further research in cheaper methods of production would be of no value. Things like large commercial aircraft typically use thousands of kilograms of titanium in critical structural components to provide high strength and lower weight than other alloys like steel. If the titanium metal could be produced cheaper, it would mean that aircraft could get lighter and use less fuel. It would also expand the use of the metal into other areas where the current cost prohibits its use.

    Alloys like steel are cheap because methods were developed to make it less costly to produce in large amounts. 150 years ago, steel was more expensive than wrought or cast iron, and even though it could be made stronger than iron, steel was used very little because it was expensive to make. Once the Bessemer process was developed, the price of steel came down quite sharply, and its use skyrocketed.

    A similar situation applied to aluminum. Before the introduction of the Hall process to refine its ore, aluminum was so difficult to produce and so rare, it was considered a precious metal. Once the Hall process was shown to refine aluminum ore cheaply and make large quantities of the metal, the cost plummeted, and the use of aluminum increased dramatically.
     
  10. Dec 31, 2014 #9

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I'm confused mainly because different ways to estimate the Ti price give such grossly varying answers.

    e.g. The commercial price of a sheet of dimensions 144x11x2 inches is $23,500. If I did my calculations right that's approx $90/kg. That's 10x the earlier estimate.

    (One additional variable seems to be that structural Ti rarely seems native Ti. Even for airplanes. The price of sheet above is for the common Ti product called 6AL-4V )

    http://www.titaniumjoe.com/index.cfm/products/product-details/?code=SP:6AL-4V:11.900:144.250:2.000

    Yet another online source reports structural Ti (ingot of 6AL-4V)) to be 4.5 times as expensive as SS316L. If I assume SS316L currently costs approximately $4.5/kg (can anyone verify this?) that would make Ti's price $20/kg.

    http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Matter/Costs.html

    What gives? $6/kg to $90/kg seems a very wide range for Ti price.
     
  11. Dec 31, 2014 #10

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Indeed! It also has tons of marine applications. For seawater contact it seems one of the top choices for MOC. Even in salt manufacturing & chlor alkali they seem to use Ti a lot for contact parts, pumps, piping, heat exchangers etc.
     
  12. Dec 31, 2014 #11

    SteamKing

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    I don't think you'll find one price for a given metal or alloy. The price will depend, in part, on the purity of the metal or the composition of the alloy, the quantity of the material to be purchased, the form in which it is to be purchased (e.g., sheet, rolled shape, cast ingot, extrusion, forging, any heat treatment or other processing, etc.), the source or manufacturer, etc., etc.
     
  13. Jan 1, 2015 #12

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    I totally agree. But the price differences, should not be order of magnitude ones right? $9/kg versus $90/kg seems too much to attribute to manufacturer variances, processed form etc.
     
  14. Jan 1, 2015 #13

    Bystander

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member
    2016 Award

    Set up charges, price breaks on quantity, easily cover order of magnitude.
     
  15. Jan 1, 2015 #14

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Thanks. I hadn't realized that.
     
  16. Jan 1, 2015 #15

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Processing. I saw a quote of $16-$17/kg for Ti-6Al-4V in ingot form. Further processing increases cost.

    http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-Structure/Flagships/Future-Manufacturing-Flagship/Titanium-processing/Why-do-titanium-products-cost-so-much.aspx [Broken]
    Somewhat dated (29 April 2011 | Updated 19 September 2012)

    One maybe could do a rough estimate of cost based on composition and cost of elements.

    One would also want to get very clean alloys - low in S and P.

    Some old prices on stainless steels - by the lb.
    http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/stainlesssteelpricelist.pdf

    Incidentally - Rolex became, in 1985, the first watchmaking brand to use 904L steel due to it's corrosion resistance that acquires an exceptional sheen when polished.

    http://www.sandmeyersteel.com/2205.html - they may be able to provide prices.

    Outokumpu makes a number of the steels or superalloys cited.
    http://www.outokumpu.com/en/stainless-steel/grades/duplex/Pages/default.aspx
    http://www.outokumpu.com/en/stainless-steel/grades/high-performance-austenitics/Pages/default.aspx
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
  17. Jan 1, 2015 #16

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Thanks @Astronuc!

    Maybe I should expand the original question. Suppose you wanted to choose an MOC for 2-3mm thick tubes for use in an evaporator in contact with hot (90 C), saturated NaCl brine which might be the MOC you might consider.
     
  18. Jan 1, 2015 #17

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Probably 654 SMO, but that could be overkill depending on pH, aeration and other factors.

    This might help - http://www.outokumpu.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Outokumpu-corrosion-management-news-Acom-2-2014.pdf

    http://www.outokumpu.com/en/stainless-steel/grades/duplex/Pages/default.aspx
    Grades 2507 and 4501 are regarded as super duplex grades. They are highly alloyed and have a corrosion resistance comparable to high performance austenitics like 254 SMO®. Typical applications for super duplex are desalination plants, seawater systems, flue-gas cleaning, umbilicals, storage tanks and pressure vessels.

    http://steelfinder.outokumpu.com/GradeDataSheetv3PDF.aspx?OKGrade=2507

    Special Metals Corporation makes Monel Alloy 400. You might ask them for pricing as well.
    http://www.specialmetals.com/documents/Monel alloy 400.pdf

    http://swcc.gov.sa/files/assets/Research/Technical%20Papers/Corrosion/CORROSION%20AND%20MATERIAL%20SELECTION%20IN%20DESALINATION%20PLANTS....3.pdf [Broken]

    http://turbolab.tamu.edu/proc/pumpproc/P26/ch09_Morrow.pdf [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2017
  19. Jan 2, 2015 #18

    rollingstein

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Processing seems a huge price markup. e.g. From Ti sheet to tube seems approx. a 3x markup based on weight.
     
  20. Jan 2, 2015 #19

    Astronuc

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    Ti alloy tubing would be produced by extrusion and pilgering for a seamless tubing production. Seamless tubing production is quite common.

    The cost goes up as the product proceeds along the production chain.

    Ingot price will also reflect the cost of raw/virgin elements or scrap. Scrap is obviously cheaper, but may contain undesirable levels of impurities. Clean steels can be made with AOD and subsequent melting in a vacuum system, either with induction melting (VIM) and/or arc-remelting (VAR). Double-melting is also possible.
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook




Similar Discussions: Relative cost of some alloys
  1. Cost of Compressor (Replies: 2)

Loading...