Relative magnetic field direction question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of magnetic fields as perceived by observers in different frames of reference, particularly in relation to stationary electrons and a stationary magnet. Participants explore the implications of special relativity on the direction and interaction of magnetic fields in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether two observers traveling towards a stationary string of electrons would perceive the magnetic field in different directions.
  • Another participant asserts that the magnetic field is frame variant, indicating that both its magnitude and direction change with the observer's frame of reference.
  • A participant expresses confusion about how a stationary magnet would affect the electrons if observers see the magnetic fields differently.
  • Another participant states that a stationary magnet relative to the electrons would not affect them, as the electrons are not moving in that frame, resulting in no magnetic force.
  • It is noted that in the moving observer's frame, the magnet generates an electric field that counteracts any magnetic force on the electrons.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how magnetic fields are perceived in different frames and how they interact with stationary objects. There is no consensus on the implications of these interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the transformation of magnetic fields in relation to special relativity, but the discussion does not resolve the complexities of how these fields interact across different frames of reference.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying electromagnetism, special relativity, or the interactions of magnetic fields with charged particles in different reference frames.

ealbers
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Sorry for what is probably a silly question...

Lets say we go into deep space, we place a string of electrons along say the X axis...all stationary relative to each other.

Say we place 100 electrons from -50 to +50 using whatever units you want


Now, you start from -50 and travel to 0
I start from +50 and travel to 0

We each indicate to a 3rd observer the orientation of the magnetic field we observe...

Is it true that we would each point in a different direction??

I would see the magnetic field opposite from you?

If so, how would a magnet sitting in the stationary frame of reference of the electrons effect them?

Thanks, again, apologies for a ignorant question

Eric
 
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ealbers said:
Is it true that we would each point in a different direction??
Yes, the magnetic field is frame variant, both its magnitude and its direction.

ealbers said:
I would see the magnetic field opposite from you?
No. The magnetic field transforms according to:
[tex]\mathbf {{B}_{\parallel}}' = \mathbf {{B}_{\parallel}}[/tex][tex]\mathbf {{B}_{\bot}}'= \gamma \left( \mathbf {B}_{\bot} -\frac{1}{c^2} \mathbf{ v} \times \mathbf {E} \right)[/tex]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_electromagnetism_and_special_relativity
 
Please forgive my ignorance on this,

If we would each point a different direction, how would a stationary magnet (relative to the electrons) effect the electrons?

Or would the magnetic fields which we each see not intereact with the stationary (relative to electrons, but not us) magnet?

I guess my real question was,

If a stationary electron has no magnetic field...and a magnet is 'near' it...what happens when my frame of reference is moving? I see a field around the electron, I see a field around the magnet, do they not interact? (Orientation with 2 observers makes me wonder about the direction the electron would move, if it moves)



Thanks
Eric
 
Last edited:
ealbers said:
If we would each point a different direction, how would a stationary magnet (relative to the electrons) effect the electrons?

Or would the magnetic fields which we each see not intereact with the stationary (relative to electrons, but not us) magnet?
A magnet which is stationary wrt the electrons would not affect them at all.

In the rest frame of the magnet/electrons it is because the electrons are not moving and therefore there is no magnetic force.

In our frame the moving magnet also makes an electric field which exactly counteracts the magnetic force and leads to no net force on the electrons from the magnet.
 
Ahhh! Thank you!
 

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