Relativity question, photon and proton

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a relativity problem involving a proton with a gamma factor of 10^12 and a photon traveling across a distance of 9.3x10^20 m. The original poster seeks to determine the time interval by which the photon precedes the proton.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the formulation of dimensionless ratios to simplify the problem, questioning the implications of using such ratios. There is an attempt to derive expressions for the time taken by both the photon and the proton to traverse the given distance, with some participants expressing uncertainty about their calculations and the correctness of their approach.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing hints and suggestions for approximations. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of series expansions for small values of epsilon, but there is no clear consensus on the correctness of the calculations presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that epsilon is a small value, which may affect the accuracy of their approximations. There is also mention of needing to consider the reference frame of the proton for the final time calculation.

Prodigium
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Relativity question, photon and proton...

Homework Statement


Proton of gamma factor 10^12 and a photon set off from one side of our galaxy to the other take the distance to be 9.3x10^20m.
What is the time interval that the photon precedes the proton?

Homework Equations


\gamma = sqrt(c/2epsilon). (epsilon being c-v)

The Attempt at a Solution


Worked out epsilon to be 1.5x10^(-18)Not sure where to go from there anyhelp/hints would be most appreciated.
 
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You should try to form ratios that are dimensionless. In this case, you could write
[tex]v = c - \Delta v = c\left(1 - \frac{\delta v}{c}\right) = c(1-\varepsilon)[/tex]where [itex]\varepsilon = \Delta v/c[/itex]. Why? Because it avoids any complication due to units, for one thing. Regardless of which set of units you use, [itex]\varepsilon[/itex] defined this way will always turn out to have the same value. Moreover, an expression is often more naturally expressed in terms of these unitless ratios.

You can show that
[tex]\gamma = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-(v/c)^2}} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{1-(1-\varepsilon)^2}} \cong \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\varepsilon}}[/tex]

Now write down expressions for the time each takes to travel the given distance.
 
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[itex]\Delta t = \frac{(1- \epsilon )x-x}{c (1- \epsilon) }[/itex]


after putting [itex]t_1 = \frac{x}{c}[/itex] and [itex]t_2 = \frac{x}{c(1- \epsilon )}[/itex], then to find [itex]\Delta t = t_1 - t_2[/itex]

but I can't seem to get it , did I do this correctly?
 


Prodigium said:
[itex]\Delta t = \frac{(1- \epsilon )x-x}{c (1- \epsilon) }[/itex]


after putting [itex]t_1 = \frac{x}{c}[/itex] and [itex]t_2 = \frac{x}{c(1- \epsilon )}[/itex], then to find [itex]\Delta t = t_1 - t_2[/itex]

but I can't seem to get it , did I do this correctly?
Because ε is so small, you can approximate t2 well with a series expansion to first order.
 


vela said:
Because ε is so small, you can approximate t2 well with a series expansion to first order.

so [itex]t_2= \frac{x}{c} \cdot (1- \epsilon )^{-1} = \frac{x}{c} \cdot (1)[/itex]

or, because that completely gets rid of [itex]\epsilon[/itex] :-

[itex]t_2= \frac{x}{c} \cdot (1- \epsilon )^{-1} = \frac{x}{c} \cdot (1+ \epsilon )[/itex]

That after finding [itex]\Delta t[/itex] gave me and answer of [itex]-1.55 \cdot 10^{-12} s[/itex]

only problem is you have to find the time as being in the reference frame of the proton later and need [itex]t_2[/itex].
 
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