Resulting temperature of mixed liquids

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the thermodynamic principles involved in mixing two portions of liquid at different temperatures and how this affects the resulting temperature and energy available for a heat engine. Participants explore concepts related to specific heat capacity, internal energy, and entropy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assumption that the resulting temperature of mixed liquids is simply the average of the initial temperatures, suggesting that energy E is still present and the final temperature may be higher.
  • Another participant hints at calculating the energy of each fluid as a function of temperature, implying a need for a more detailed approach to determine the final temperature.
  • A participant recalls using specific heat capacity to calculate the energies of the two portions and questions whether this method will yield the correct temperature for the mixture.
  • There is a mention of an entropy effect, indicating that the final temperature in the presence of a heat engine differs from the average of the initial temperatures.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the relationship between enthalpy, temperature change, and entropy, indicating a need for further reading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to calculate the resulting temperature or the implications for energy and entropy. Multiple viewpoints and uncertainties remain regarding the effects of mixing and the role of entropy.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the properties of the liquids, the dependence on specific heat capacity, and unresolved mathematical steps in calculating the final temperature and energy considerations.

synch
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[ I think I should have asked this many years ago when I was studying !!! However it will help me re-understand thermodynamics and entropy a bit, and may be good for others on the same path so... ]

Considering two portions of a liquid. Container A liquid is at a high temperature, container B is at a low temperature. The temperature difference could be used to drive a heat engine, so there is an calculable amount of energy E available that results from the difference in temperatures and heat contents.

Mixing the two (same volumes) liquids results in the temperature changing to a point somewhere between the starting values. If I simply assume the result is just the average, what has happened to the energy E ? So, I guess that assumption is wrong and the energy E is still present, the temperature will be higher than the simple average.

How is energy E then accounted for, and the temperature calculated ? I guess that is the whole gist of entropy !?
 
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Hint: how do you calculate the energy of each fluid as a function of temperature?
 
... { OMG I am starting to remember uni from forty years ago... ] that would be using the specific heat capacity of the liquid ,,,errrm say 4.18 J / g water as an approximate constant...so calculate the energies of the two portions, add them and then use the combined amount to work back to a temperature of the mix...
will that give the correct temperature ? So, the energy that would have been available for a heat engine, is simply contained in the mixed whole I guess ? Is there any entropy effect ?
 
synch said:
... { OMG I am starting to remember uni from forty years ago... ] that would be using the specific heat capacity of the liquid ,,,errrm say 4.18 J / g water as an approximate constant...so calculate the energies of the two portions, add them and then use the combined amount to work back to a temperature of the mix...
will that give the correct temperature ? So, the energy that would have been available for a heat engine, is simply contained in the mixed whole I guess ? Is there any entropy effect ?
Yes, there is an entropy effect. In the case without the engine, the final temperature is the average temperature. In the case where there is an engine involved, the final temperature is not the average of the initial temperatures.

Do you remember the equation for the change in the internal energy as a function of the heat capacity and the temperature change?
 
Chester knows more than me, so I’ll let him handle this.
 
It was something involving enthalpy and T delta S.... but before I waste your time, thanks guys , I'll read up a bit and get back
 

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