How Is Reynolds Stress Calculated from RANS Equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of Reynolds stress from the Reynolds-Averaged Navier-Stokes (RANS) equations. Participants explore the definitions and methods for calculating Reynolds stress, particularly in the context of velocity measurements and the implications of using different measurement techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines Reynolds stress as ##\rho \langle v_i v_j \rangle## and questions how to compute it using specific velocity measurements.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about correlating velocity measurements, questioning how to ensure that measurements correspond correctly when using hotwire data.
  • A different participant suggests that simultaneous measurement of multiple velocity components is possible with appropriate hot-wire probes and data acquisition systems.
  • Another participant clarifies that in the RANS framework, Reynolds stresses are not derived directly from instantaneous velocity fluctuations but rather through transport equations or assumptions like isotropic turbulence.
  • This participant also discusses the importance of distinguishing between instantaneous velocities and their averages when calculating mean and variance, providing specific calculations for these metrics.
  • They further explain how covariance can be used to calculate shear stress and note the symmetry in covariance calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the calculation of Reynolds stress and the implications of measurement techniques. There is no consensus on the best approach to calculate Reynolds stress from RANS equations, and multiple perspectives on measurement techniques and theoretical frameworks are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity regarding the relationship between instantaneous and averaged velocities, as well as the assumptions underlying the RANS approach. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the practical aspects of measurement and the theoretical foundations of Reynolds stress calculations.

member 428835
hi pf!

i had an easy question on how to calculate the reynolds stress from the RANS equations. Reynold's Stress is defined as ##\rho \langle v_i v_j \rangle## where ##v_i## is the residual velocity measurement in the ##i## direction.

my question is, how is the reynolds stress actually calculated? for example, suppose we measure velocity only in the x and y directions. let's say we take 4 measurements and find that ##v_1 = 1,2,3,4## and ##v_2=4,5,6,7##.

is the following correct: $$ \langle v_i v_j \rangle = \left| \begin{array}{ccc}
\langle v_1 v_1 \rangle & \langle v_1 v_2 \rangle \\
\langle v_2 v_1 \rangle & \langle v_2 v_2 \rangle \end{array} \right|$$

where ##\langle v_1 v_2 \rangle## would be ##1*4+2*5+3*6+4*7## and hence ##\langle v_1 v_2 \rangle = \langle v_2 v_1 \rangle##

i appreciate all help!
 
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i should add, part of my confusion is how to we know that 1 corresponds to 4 and 2 to 5 and so on? i mean, if we are measuring, say with hotwire data, is it possible to measure two velocities at the same time?
 
If you have a suitable hot-wire probe, then yes, you can measure multiple components of the velocity simultaneously provided your data acquisition hardware can sample simultaneously. With enough properly-oriented hot wires, you can even concoct schemes to measure all three velocity and vorticity components simultaneously.
 
Your question is a little bit confusing, because you talk about RANS and measurements. The Reynolds Averaging approach gives you an equation for the Reynolds stresses, the Reynolds Stress equations. In the RANS approach, you don't calculate the Reynolds stresses from the instantaneous velocity fluctuations but you calculate them, either using the transport equation for the Reynolds stresses or making more assumptions like assuming isotropic turbulence (and solving an equation for the turbulent kinetic energy).

Also note that when you measure the velocity at distinct instances in time, v_1 and v_2 are instantaneous velocities and you need instantaneous velocities to construct the mean and variance. The number averaged mean <v_1>=2.5 m/s and the number averaged mean of the squared velocity is <v^2_1>=7.5 m^2/s^2
The variance is <v_1v_1>=<v^2_1> - <v_1>^2=7.5-2.5^2 =1.25 m^2/s^2

The rules for calculating the covariance can be used to calculate the shear stress <uv>. You can see by interchanging u and v that the covariance <uv> must be equal to <vu>.
 

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