RMS speed in kinetic energy equation for gas

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of root mean square (rms) speed in the kinetic energy equation for gases, specifically why rms speed is preferred over mean speed squared in the context of calculating average kinetic energy. The scope includes theoretical considerations related to kinetic energy and molecular motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that rms speed is used because the mean velocity of gas particles is zero due to their random motion in all directions.
  • Others argue that kinetic energy is proportional to the square of speed, and thus the average of the square of speeds must be used rather than the square of the average speed.
  • A participant mentions that using the square of the mean speed would yield an incorrect result, emphasizing the distinction between mean square and square of the mean.
  • One participant provides a formula involving the velocities and number of molecules to illustrate how rms speed is calculated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of using rms speed for calculating kinetic energy, but there are differing views on the reasons for this choice, leading to an unresolved discussion regarding the nuances of the explanations provided.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of mean speed and rms speed, as well as the implications of using different averaging methods in the context of kinetic energy calculations.

zanyzoya
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I have been pondering. Why is it that we use the rms speed in the equation Ek = 1/2 m vrms2, as opposed to just the mean speed2
 
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Because kinetic energy is 1/2 mv2. The kinetic energy of molecule i is 1/2 mvi2, so the average kinetic energy is 1/2m * (average of v2). If you used the square of the mean speed you would get a different, wrong answer. (The mean velocity is, of course, zero.)
 
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mjc123 said:
Because kinetic energy is 1/2 mv2. The kinetic energy of molecule i is 1/2 mvi2, so the average kinetic energy is 1/2m * (average of v2). If you used the square of the mean speed you would get a different, wrong answer. (The mean velocity is, of course, zero.)
I agree
 
Thanks for your help with that mjc 123 and lychette, it makes much more sense now. :smile:
 
We are using V(rms) as mean velocity of the system will come out to be zero as particles are moving randomly in all the directions, So Rms (Root Mean Square) is taken.V^2(Rms) = N1 x V1^2 + N2 x V2^2 Divided by N1 + N2Here N is molecule and V is its velocity. As it is a square all velocities will become positive.
 
That is true, but as pointed out above it is not the only reason. You could use the mean speed (magnitude of the velocity), but that would give the wrong answer because KE is proportional to v2, so you need the average value of v2. The mean square is not equal to the square of the mean.
 

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