ROC in Sign function Z-transform

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Z-transform of the function x[n] = u[n] - u[-n-1], exploring the calculation of the Z-transform and the associated region of convergence (ROC). Participants engage with theoretical aspects of the Z-transform, its relationship to the discrete-time Fourier transform (DTFT), and implications for stability.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the Z-transform and finds X(z) = 2/(1 - z^(-1)), questioning the ROC since the intersection of |z| > 1 and |z| < 1 is null.
  • Another participant suggests that a null intersection of the ROC implies the Z-transform cannot be used due to divergence.
  • Some participants note that evaluating the Z-transform at z = e^(j*Omega) yields the correct Fourier transform, raising questions about the existence of the Z-transform in this context.
  • There is a discussion about the DTFT being more prone to instability than the Z-transform, with references to the necessity of the unit circle being within the ROC for the DTFT to exist.
  • Participants express uncertainty about whether the ROC has been miscalculated or if there is another explanation for the observed behavior.
  • There is curiosity about the academic level of the course related to this problem, confirming it is for a graduate-level DSP course in electrical engineering.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the ROC being null or the stability of the Z-transform versus the DTFT. Multiple competing views remain regarding the interpretation of the Z-transform and its application in this scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the calculations and the implications of the ROC, indicating potential limitations in their understanding or assumptions about the Z-transform and its properties.

Bromio
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Homework Statement


Calculate the Z-transform of the function x[n] = u[n]-u[-n-1].

Homework Equations


[itex]X(z) = ZT\{x[n]\} = \sum_{n=-\infty}^{\infty}x[n]z^{-n}[/itex]

[itex]ZT\{u[n]\} = \displaystyle\frac{1}{1-z^{-1}}[/itex], ROC: |z| > 1.
[itex]ZT\{-u[-n-1]\} = \displaystyle\frac{1}{1-z^{-1}}[/itex], ROC: |z| < 1.

[itex]ZT\{x[n]\} = X(z)[/itex], ROC: R1
[itex]ZT\{y[n]\} = Y(z)[/itex], ROC: R2
[itex]ZT\{ax[n]+by[n]\} = aX(z)+bY(z)[/itex], ROC: at least [itex]R1\cap R2[/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution


Using formulas in section 2. it is obvious that [itex]X(z) = ZT\{x[n]\} = \displaystyle\frac{2}{1-z^{-1}}[/itex], but which is the ROC? The intersection between |z| > 1 and |z|< 1 is null.

Thank you.
 
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Isn't it that if there the intersection of the ROC is null then you can't use the z-transform because it diverges?
 
SpaceDomain said:
Isn't it that if there the intersection of the ROC is null then you can't use the z-transform because it diverges?

I thought that, but if you take z = e^(j*Omega), you obtain the correct Fourier transform.

In addition (without rigorousness), this z-transform was asked in an exam and I'm sure it exists. What is happening?
 
Bromio said:
I thought that, but if you take z = e^(j*Omega), you obtain the correct Fourier transform.

So taking the z-transform and evaluating at z = e^(j*Omega) is the definition of the DTFT, right? Isn't the DTFT more prone to instability than the z-transform?

Hmm.. I will think about this more. Maybe someone else is better suited to answer this question as my DSP class begins covering the z-transform this upcoming Monday (good time to start reading up on it though!).

Is this for a graduate level DSP course? Just curious.
 
Last edited:
SpaceDomain said:
So taking the z-transform and evaluating at z = e^(j*Omega) is the definition of the DTFT, right? Isn't the DTFT more prone to instability than the z-transform?

Yes, DTFT only exists if the unit circle |z| = 1 is in the ROC.

So I don't know if I'm making mistakes and this ROC is miscalculated or if there is another explanation to this behavior.

SpaceDomain said:
Is this for a graduate level DSP course? Just curious.
Yes. Electrical engineering, more exactly.
 

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