Rod falling faster than gravity

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    Falling Gravity Rod
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of a rod falling around a pivot, specifically addressing the derivation of a formula related to its motion and the components of forces acting on it. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and implications of the setup.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant references an article from Harvard University discussing a rod that falls faster than gravity and questions the derivation of the associated formula.
  • Another participant mentions a well-known effect involving a ##\Gamma-##shaped tube and a chain, suggesting that the acceleration of the chain's links exceeds gravitational acceleration until a portion remains in a horizontal position.
  • Several participants express uncertainty about the derivation of the formula and the use of cosine versus sine in the calculations.
  • It is noted that the weight of the rod has both a component directed through the pivot and a tangential component that causes acceleration.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the angle θ and its relation to the forces acting on the rod, particularly the perpendicular distance from the pivot to the line of force.
  • A question is raised about the implications of attaching a mass to the end of the rod and whether the torque would account for tension in the force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the mechanics involved, with some points being clarified while others remain uncertain or contested. No consensus is reached on the derivation or the implications of the forces involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential misunderstandings regarding the angles and components of forces, as well as the specific setup of the rod and pivot system. There are unresolved questions about the derivation and the role of tension when additional mass is considered.

Michal Fishkin
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Harvard University has an interesting article on a rod whose end that falls faster than gravity around a pivot.
http://sciencedemonstrations.fas.harvard.edu/presentations/falling-faster-g
How did they derive this formula?

fasterthang-eq1.png
Where R is length of rod/2, or the centre of mass.

Why did they use cos instead of sin?

Also, in this formula
fasterthang-eq2.png

Why did they use Lcos instead of L/2 cos?
 

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The article is interesting indeed but the effect is well known for ages. Take a ##\Gamma-##shaped tube in the vertical plane such that the shoulders of this tube are vertical and horizontal. Put a chain in this tube such that half of this chain is contained in the vertical shoulder. Due to gravity the chain begins to slide and the acceleration of its links is very greater than g till a part of the chain remains in the horizontal shoulder
 
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Thank you but I am still unsure about the derivation.
 
Why did they use cos instead of sin?

The weight of the rod has a component directed through the pivot and a tangential component causing acceleration.
 
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Michal Fishkin said:
fasterthang-eq1.png
Where R is length of rod/2, or the centre of mass.

Why did they use cos instead of sin?
Note that θ is the angle that the board makes with the horizontal, not the angle between the R vector and the weight. (If that was what you were thinking.)

You can also think of Rcosθ as the perpendicular distance between the line of the force (gravity) and the pivot. Or you can think of Mgcosθ as the component of the weight perpendicular to the board. (That was John Park's point.)
Michal Fishkin said:
Also, in this formula
fasterthang-eq2.png

Why did they use Lcos instead of L/2 cos?
They want the acceleration at the end of the rod, which has length L. (Note that R = L/2.)
 
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Thanks everyone! :)
If the end of the rod was also be attached and pulling down on some mass M, would the torque also consider tension in the force?
 

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