Rotation and Boost Commutating on the Same Axis

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter JordanGo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Axis Boost Rotation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the commutation relations between rotation operators and boost operators in the context of the Lorentz group, specifically focusing on proving that the commutator [J_1, G_1] equals zero. The scope includes theoretical aspects of quantum mechanics and mathematical reasoning related to the Poincaré algebra.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the Jacobi identity to prove that [J_1, G_1] = 0, but expresses uncertainty about the next steps after deriving [J_3, G_3] = [G_2, J_2] - [G_1, J_1].
  • Another participant suggests employing the Lorentz group properties and representing the operators as 4x4 matrices acting on spacetime coordinates to demonstrate their commutation.
  • A third participant introduces the Poincaré algebra and provides the definitions of the boost and rotation operators, indicating that commutativity can be shown by considering the properties of the metric tensor and the antisymmetry of the Lorentz transformation generators.
  • A later reply claims that proving [J_1, G_1] = 0 is straightforward if the commutation relation [Ji, Gj] = iεijkGk is used, noting that the ε11k term is zero when i = j = 1.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing approaches to proving the commutation relation, with some advocating for matrix representations and others relying on algebraic identities. There is no consensus on the method to be used, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific properties of the Lorentz group and the Poincaré algebra, but the discussion does not clarify the assumptions or definitions required for the proofs. The reliance on the commutation relation and the properties of the metric tensor introduces additional complexity that is not fully explored.

JordanGo
Messages
72
Reaction score
0
I want to prove that:
[tex][J_1,G_1] = 0[/tex]
Where J is the rotation operator and G is the boost operator (subscript refers to the axis).

I am using the Jacobi identity:
[tex][[J_1,J_2],G_3] = [[G_3,J_2],J_1] +[[J_1,G_3],J_2][/tex]

Using other identities, I got:
[tex][J_3,G_3] = [G_2,J_2] - [G_1,J_1][/tex]

Now I'm not sure what to do, can someone help?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You will need to use information specifically about the Lorentz group and these two generators. For example you could write their action as 4 x 4 matrices on (x, y, z, t), and show that these matrices commute.
 
I would start from the Poincare algebra:
[tex]\frac{ 1 }{ i }[M_{\mu\nu}, M_{\rho\sigma}] = \eta_{\mu\rho} M_{\nu\sigma} - \eta_{\mu\sigma} M_{\nu\rho} - \eta_{\nu\rho} M_{\mu\sigma} + \eta_{\nu\sigma} M_{\mu\rho}[/tex]

Then the boosts are: (μ = 1, 2, 3)
[tex]G_{\mu} = M_{0\mu}[/tex]

And the rotations: (μ, ρ, σ = 1, 2, 3; ρ ≠ σ; ρ ≠ μ; σ ≠ μ)
[tex]J_{\mu} = M_{\rho\sigma}[/tex]

You will prove the commutativity knowing that certain components of the metric tensor are zero and the generator of the Lorentz transformations is antisymmetric.
 
JordanGo said:
I want to prove that:
[tex][J_1,G_1] = 0[/tex]
Where J is the rotation operator and G is the boost operator (subscript refers to the axis).
That is pretty simple,if you are allowed to use the commutation relation [Ji,Gj]=iεijkGk,for i=j=1.you have ε11k term,which is of course zero.(you can get this commutation using above post)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
8K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
6K