Saturation line for a given substance

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of the saturation line for a given substance in thermodynamics, specifically addressing its definition, terminology, and the implications of using saturated liquid tables in relation to mixtures of vapor and liquid. The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical explanation.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant interprets the saturation line as the combination of temperature and pressure where 100% vapor exists, questioning if it equates to the saturated liquid line and saturated vapor line.
  • Another participant provides a "translation" of the saturation line, indicating that it represents the conditions for 100% vapor and that below this line, a mixture of vapor and liquid exists until reaching the saturated-liquid line.
  • A third participant notes the potential confusion in terminology, suggesting that "saturation line" and "saturated vapor line" may not be universally understood and could lead to misunderstandings regarding whether it pertains to liquid or vapor.
  • Another participant highlights the historical context of thermodynamics and the variability in terminology, mentioning that confusion often arises due to differing definitions, particularly between physics and engineering contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the terminology and definitions related to the saturation line, indicating that there is no consensus on the terms used and their implications in thermodynamics.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the clarity of terminology and definitions, which may depend on the context of physics versus engineering. The discussion does not resolve the confusion surrounding the names of concepts.

mech-eng
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"The saturation line for a given substance is the combination of temperature and pressure where 100% vapor exists. At any point below this line, there will be a mixture of vapor and liquid, until a point is reached when only the liquid phase exists."

I don't understand above passage from @SteamKing's post. Is saturation line= saturated liquid line + saturated vapor line, as in the picture?

If you have a mixture, can you use a saturated liquid table?

upload_2017-4-24_17-29-23.jpeg


Source: Introduction to Engineering Thermodynamics by Sonntag/Borgnakke.

Thank you.
 
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Here is a "translation":
mech-eng said:
"The saturation line [= saturated-vapor line] for a given substance is the combination of temperature and pressure where 100% vapor exists. At any point below this line, there will be a mixture of vapor and liquid, until a point [= saturated-liquid line] is reached when only the liquid phase exists."
Edit: Note also that @SteamKing was talking about T and P, while the picture you posted is T vs V.
 
DrClaude said:
Here is a "translation":

But thermodynamics is an relatively old science but in the thread there is confussion on the names of concepts. Would you please share the common terms. Of course they cannot be only one for the same concept.

Saturation Line or Saturated Vapor Line.

Saturation line might be confused with if it is for liquid or vapor.
Thank you.
 
mech-eng said:
But thermodynamics is an relatively old science but in the thread there is confussion on the names of concepts.
SteamKing may have been talking colloquially. In any case, the terminology is often far from fixed, especially between physics and engineering. I stopped counting the number of times confusion arises at PF due to the different definitions of an ideal gas!
 

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