Saving Ash from a Volcanic Eruption: A Geologist's Perspective

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the impact of volcanic eruptions, specifically the Eyjafjallajökull eruption in Iceland, on air travel and the environment. Participants share links to news articles, images, and personal observations related to the ash cloud and its effects on aviation and daily life.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note the historical pattern of eruptions from Katla following Eyjafjallajökull, suggesting potential global consequences if Katla erupts.
  • There is a humorous exchange about whether volcanoes dislike aircraft, with some participants joking about the relationship between the two.
  • Several participants inquire about satellite images of the ash cloud, with mixed opinions on whether the cloud would be visible.
  • Reports indicate widespread flight cancellations across Europe due to the ash cloud, with participants sharing their experiences of the quiet skies.
  • Some participants discuss the possibility of flying at lower altitudes to avoid ash, questioning the logic behind current aviation safety decisions.
  • There are references to the visibility of volcanic ash compared to thunderstorms, with some participants expressing uncertainty about how to localize ash plumes effectively.
  • Humorous remarks about the volcano's name and its supposed implications are made, reflecting a light-hearted tone amidst the serious topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views regarding the effects of volcanic ash on aviation safety and the feasibility of flying under certain conditions. Participants express uncertainty about the behavior of ash plumes and the decision-making processes in aviation safety, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the three-dimensional spread of ash and its implications for aviation. There are also references to historical incidents involving volcanic ash and aircraft, but no consensus is reached on the best practices for navigating such situations.

  • #31
Good that there were no jet planes when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Garita_Caldera"
 
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  • #32
Space over Poland closed, with exception of Kraków and radom.

I wonder - do we know of a plot of number of volcanic eruptions and amount of ash ejected in the past? Yes, I am thinking about the subject that we can't discuss. Was the average amount of ash flying in the last 50 years different from the average? I don't want to start a discussion, but if someone can fill my curiosity, that'll be great.
 
  • #33
Does anyone know the VEI of this erruption?
 
  • #34
mgb_phys said:
The US could do more to help though - can't you pacify volcanoes by throwing people from Virginia into them?
Correction #1: People from right next door to Virginia. Elected officials only; plain old ordinary citizens don't count.

Correction #2: You also missed the tossing of PF annual award winners into the volcano as a placative effect.
 
  • #36


I never realized Iceland was such a picturesque place. I think that's my new dream vacation destination.

[PLAIN]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Gullfoss-Iceland-20050724.jpg/800px-Gullfoss-Iceland-20050724.jpg Gullfoss

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Skogafoss_from_below.JPG/800px-Skogafoss_from_below.JPG[/URL] Skógafoss

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Iceland_Dettifoss_1972-4.jpg/434px-Iceland_Dettifoss_1972-4.jpg[/URL] Dettifoss
 
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  • #37


brewnog said:
Rubbish. I was supposed to be going to Ireland for the weekend. Booo!

Surely you can get to Ireland without flying!
 
  • #38


@BobG: I had no idea either, but apparently that's where the Lord of The Rings movies were filmed. That would explain the vistas, but not why the movies were unwatchable. :biggrin:

Anyway, like California, isn't there always a big catch to that kind of natural beauty? :yikes:
 
  • #39


Frame Dragger said:
@BobG: I had no idea either, but apparently that's where the Lord of The Rings movies were filmed.
No, that was New Zealand

Anyway, like California, isn't there always a big catch to that kind of natural beauty? :yikes:
In Iceland? - occasional volcanoes and the ever present danger of Bjork encounters.

in New Zealand - no volcanoes and even the sheep are pretty tame.
 
  • #40


mgb_phys said:
No, that was New Zealand


In Iceland? - occasional volcanoes and the ever present danger of Bjork encounters.

in New Zealand - no volcanoes and even the sheep are pretty tame.

Oooooohhhh... heh.. no offense... well... a lot of people! :redface: Right, New Zealand = tastey lamb and people who will hang you by your ankles if you compare them to flightless birds. Iceland = "Uh.. didn't you know, that uh, Iceland is GREEN, and uh, Greenland ICEY. SHAZAM!" from a 15 year old.

Bjork... she's... interesting, in a "run you poor swan, RUN!" and "DON'T SAY 'Welcome To Bangkok!'" way. On the upside she's... ah... scary?

EDIT: Oh, and mgb... why are the sheep tame? What have you been doing to the poor... lambs?! "Tame" or "Tramatized"? :biggrin:
 
  • #41


mgb_phys said:
in New Zealand - no volcanoes and even the sheep are pretty tame.

You could be pecked by a kiwi, though.
 
  • #42


zoobyshoe said:
You could be pecked by a kiwi, though.

Too true mate, too true, still, better than steppin' on an inland Taipan, am I right?! *sound of unamused crickets*... right?!

Ehhh...
 
  • #44
I would just add that flying low = GAS GUZZLER.
 
  • #46
  • #47


Frame Dragger said:
EDIT: Oh, and mgb... why are the sheep tame? What have you been doing to the poor... lambs?! "Tame" or "Tramatized"? :biggrin:
Well compared to the island next door, where even the sheep are venomous.

Oh, New Zealand does have a few volcanoes but they are relatively polite and well behaved.
Cute note at the bottom of the NZ geological survey's web page
They have a link for questions, but note that "The Institute cannot determine exactly when the next eruption will occur"
 
  • #48
Can propellor planes fly safely through the ash?
 
  • #49
Count Iblis said:
Can propellor planes fly safely through the ash?

Most large propeller planes are turbo-props so have exactly the same engine as 'jets'.
However the ash is mostly at 20-30,000 ft so it's perfectly safe for anything to fly under it, small planes, turboprops, jets and helicopters.
But it's risky if you have to climb or descend through the cloud, or if the cloud moves - and you don't want to be the one explaining to the lawyers of a 747 full of victims why you ok'ed it.
 
  • #50


mgb_phys said:
Well compared to the island next door, where even the sheep are venomous.
Oh, New Zealand does have a few volcanoes but they are relatively polite and well behaved.
Cute note at the bottom of the NZ geological survey's web page
They have a link for questions, but note that "The Institute cannot determine exactly when the next eruption will occur"

I KNOW! Evolution took a really nasty turn when even the damned PLATYPUS (male) is venemous! For god's sake, the Aussies have a tick that can paralyze and kill you. A TICK. That makes Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and Lyme sound like a cool breeze!
 
  • #51
mgb_phys said:
Most large propeller planes are turbo-props so have exactly the same engine as 'jets'.
However the ash is mostly at 20-30,000 ft so it's perfectly safe for anything to fly under it, small planes, turboprops, jets and helicopters.
But it's risky if you have to climb or descend through the cloud, or if the cloud moves - and you don't want to be the one explaining to the lawyers of a 747 full of victims why you ok'ed it.

Yeah, a glass shell on your engine is really a pretty dire scenario, given the glide ratio of a 747 being somewhere between a brick and a brick with wings. :eek:
 
  • #52
Frame Dragger said:
given the glide ratio of a 747 being somewhere between a brick and a brick with wings. :eek:
The glide ratio of a 747 is 1:15 -so giving you about a 100mi glide from cruise altitude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba_flight_9)

Better than helicopters which seem to turn into wood chippers at the slightest provocation.
 
  • #53


cristo said:
Surely you can get to Ireland without flying!

I could have got a ferry but that would have cost a shedload and involved another shedload of driving. Gone to Yorkshire instead, much better!
 
  • #54
mgb_phys said:
The glide ratio of a 747 is 1:15 -so giving you about a 100mi glide from cruise altitude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba_flight_9)

Better than helicopters which seem to turn into wood chippers at the slightest provocation.

A joke mgb... that was a joke. I for one would rather strap a rocket to my *** and pray for divine guidance than go into a helo, no arguments here.
 
  • #55
I have just seen sunset - red, but not unusually red. I was driving home, got here about 5 minutes too late to take pictures.
 
  • #56
Borek said:
I have just seen sunset - red, but not unusually red. I was driving home, got here about 5 minutes too late to take pictures.

Well, it sounds as though this ash and other particulates will be airborne for days... I'd say you'll get some more chances, and it may look more spectacular once the particles settle a bit into the lower atmosphere and mix with water.
 
  • #57
Borek said:
...
I wonder - do we know of a plot of number of volcanic eruptions and amount of ash ejected in the past? Yes, I am thinking about the subject that we can't discuss. Was the average amount of ash flying in the last 50 years different from the average? I don't want to start a discussion, but if someone can fill my curiosity, that'll be great.
For comparison, material ejected:

Recent:
Mount St Helens: 1.2 km^3
Pinatubo: 10 km^3

Past epics:
Yellowstone Caldera: 1000 km^3
Toba, Indonesia: 2800 km^3
La Garita Caldera: 5000 km^3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinatubo
 
  • #58
mheslep said:
For comparison, material ejected:

Recent:
Mount St Helens: 1.2 km^3
Pinatubo: 10 km^3

Past epics:
Yellowstone Caldera: 1000 km^3
Toba, Indonesia: 2800 km^3
La Garita Caldera: 5000 km^3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldera
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinatubo

Yellowstone... that's the one that probably reduced the effective human pop of the world to less than 20K (EDIT: About 80K years ago that is), right? Ahhh, thanks, I have my nightmare all lined up for tonight now! :wink:

That said... damn.
 
  • #59
  • #60
Andre said:
The biggest recent event was Mt Tambora in 1815, 160 km3.

Well, I imagine that scared the living daylights out of pretty much EVERYONE... and more than 70,000 dead... that is absurdly nasty.
 

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