Saving Ash from a Volcanic Eruption: A Geologist's Perspective

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The discussion centers on the significant impact of the Eyjafjallajökull volcanic eruption in Iceland, which has led to widespread airspace closures across Europe, affecting thousands of flights. Geologists warn that the nearby Katla volcano could erupt next, potentially causing global consequences. Participants share experiences of the quiet skies and seek satellite images of the ash cloud, while discussing the safety measures taken by air traffic control. The conversation also touches on the historical context of volcanic eruptions and their effects on aviation. Overall, the eruption has created a major disruption in air travel, prompting safety concerns and curiosity about future geological activity.
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That's quite a spectacle:

[PLAIN]http://www.icelandviking.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/eyjafjallajokull-volcano-eruption-2010.jpg

http://www.icelandviking.com/volcanoes/eyjafjallajokull-volcano-eruption/

which also states:
Throughout history, Katla always erupted after Eyjafjallajokull, the only question is when and how strong her eruption will be. Geologists not only from Iceland, but certainly from all over the world tend to agree that if Katla goes off, the eruption could have global consequences.

Aircraft don't like Volcanoes as we discussed before.
 
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Andre said:
Aircraft don't like Volcanoes

You can't say for sure. Could be volcanoes don't like aircrafts and they do what they can to ground them.

Edit: so far, so good. http://www.ruv.is/katla/
 
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Does anyone know where one can find satellite images of the ash cloud?
 
AppleBite said:
Does anyone know where one can find satellite images of the ash cloud?
Im not sure if the (cloud) would show up.
 
Icelandic volcano closes northern European airspace

All flights in and out of the UK and several other European countries have been suspended as ash from a volcanic eruption in Iceland moves south.

Up to 4,000 flights are being canceled with airspace closed in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark among others.

The UK's air traffic control service (Nats) said no flights would be allowed in or out of UK airspace until 0700 BST on Friday amid fears of engine damage.

The airspace restriction was the worst in living memory, a spokesman said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm

I have to say, it's eerily quiet with no planes overhead!
 


cristo said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm

I have to say, it's eerily quiet with no planes overhead!
Very quiet in New England just after 9-11, too. Only military planes. It's odd what you get used to. I hope that volcano settles down soon - that's a pretty wide-spread disruption.
 
  • #11
From one of Evo's links:

wm1rb5.jpg


Any PFers in that area seeing ash fall? Any other signs - perhaps an unusual sunset color?
 
  • #12
We are waiting for that

It has just been decided that the Netherlands air space is closed to all air traffic.
 
  • #13
lisab said:
Any PFers in that area seeing ash fall? Any other signs - perhaps an unusual sunset color?

Sun is already low here so I went to the attic to check - and I found our roof window facing north is covered with ash. But it is less than 10 feet from the chimney, so I don't blame Icelandic volcano. So far Sun doesn't look unusuall. But then I am on the border of the marked area.
 
  • #14
You can listen to the latest information for aircraft on Shannon Volmet on 5505 KHz. If you listen to Shanwick ATC on e.g. 5616 KHz, you'll hear that ATC is constantly asking pilots if they aware of the situation.
 
  • #15
Anyway nothing unusual here, the sunset is pretty standard in a bit hazy weather conditions and only a few cloud.
 
  • #16
There is something else worth seeing today after sunset. Venus, Mercury and a very young cresent Moon in one line. Venus is easy to see with the naked eye. You can use a binocular to locate Mercury. Just look at Venus and then move to the north-west. When Venus moves out of the field of view in a typical 8 by 40 bino in the upper left corner, Mercury will enter in the field of view.

Then knowing where Mercury is in the sky, you should be able to spot it with the naked eye.
 
  • #17
Count Iblis said:
Venus, Mercury and a very young cresent Moon in one line.

Planets in one line, volcanoes erupting, in 2012 world will come to an end, I tell ya.
 
  • #19
Nothing of note here (London) from what I could see, then again, I live on the east side of a hill so my view of sunset is lame.
 
  • #20


Rubbish. I was supposed to be going to Ireland for the weekend. Booo!
 
  • #21


Better no flights than glass forming in your turbines...

@turbo-1: No kidding! I used to work a bit at Hanscom AFB, and the old fighter-interceptors were going nonstop.
 
  • #22
Borek said:
Planets in one line, volcanoes erupting, in 2012 world will come to an end, I tell ya.

And did anyone notice that the name of the volcano, Eyjafjallajoekull, is an anagram of: Jell-La, A Jay, Flu Joke! Which means...well...ok I don't know. But it will all become clear to us, I'm sure, as the fateful day approaches.
 
  • #23
Andre said:
We are waiting for that

It has just been decided that the Netherlands air space is closed to all air traffic.
Andre, don't these ash plumes concentrate mainly at high altitude, and thus wouldn't it be possible to have some aviation traffic fly at 8-12,000 ft for awhile, weather permitting? Edit: Or, could some of the jumbos climb over at ~45,000?
 
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  • #24
mheslep said:
Andre, don't these ash plumes concentrate mainly at high altitude, and thus wouldn't it be possible to have some aviation traffic fly at 8-12,000 ft for awhile, weather permitting?

I'm not sure about the logic of the spreading of the ash in three dimensions, but in the flying business, safety desicions are normally very conservative and pragmatic solutions like that are usually out of bounds.
 
  • #25
Borek said:
Planets in one line, volcanoes erupting, in 2012 world will come to an end, I tell ya.

See we told you the icelanders were terrorists (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7662827.stm) what's more a weapon of MASS destruction than a volcano!

The US could do more to help though - can't you pacify volcanoes by throwing people from Virginia into them?

No reason why a little volcano should stop British flights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9)
 
  • #26
Andre said:
I'm not sure about the logic of the spreading of the ash in three dimensions, but in the flying business, safety desicions are normally very conservative and pragmatic solutions like that are usually out of bounds.
Sure, but aviation flys around bad weather every day, weather that would be very dangerous if flown through. The trick here would be localizing the plume similarly. Maybe that can't be done.
 
  • #27
mheslep said:
Sure, but aviation flys around bad weather every day, weather that would be very dangerous if flown through. The trick here would be localizing the plume similarly. Maybe that can't be done.

Yes, thunderstorms are clearly visible on weather radars which are operating in frequency ranges, optimized for reflecting water. Volcanic dust is usually dry.

mgb_phys said:
No reason why a little volcano should stop British flights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9)

That link states:

The crew decided to fly the ILS, Instrument Landing System, however, the glideslope was inoperative, so they flew the localizer as the first officer monitored the airport's DME (Distance Measuring Equipment). He then called out how high they should be at each DME step along the final track to the runway, creating a virtual glide slope for them to follow. It was, in Moody's words, "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse".

A bit off track but If you'd happen to fly an older generation jet without ILS, you would not know better than this is daily standard operation procedure, except that, flying solo, you don't have a first officer calling out altitudes and distances.

Anyway, Nobody is stopping the KLM either
 
  • #28
Air space over northern Poland closed.

Getting to Kraków for funeral will be tricky.
 
  • #29
From http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/04/15/iceland.flights/index.html?hpt=T2

The prime minister of Norway was among those stranded by the closure of European air space.

Jens Stoltenberg, who was in the United States for President Obama's nuclear summit, is running the Norwegian government from the U.S. via his new iPad, press secretary Sindre Fossum Beyer said.
 
  • #30
Looks like the only thing flying over europe are some friends of mine at http://arsf.nerc.ac.uk/ especially funny because the better funded group at www.faam.ac.uk with a jet can't fly because it's being painted !
 
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  • #31
Good that there were no jet planes when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Garita_Caldera"
 
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  • #32
Space over Poland closed, with exception of Kraków and radom.

I wonder - do we know of a plot of number of volcanic eruptions and amount of ash ejected in the past? Yes, I am thinking about the subject that we can't discuss. Was the average amount of ash flying in the last 50 years different from the average? I don't want to start a discussion, but if someone can fill my curiosity, that'll be great.
 
  • #33
Does anyone know the VEI of this erruption?
 
  • #34
mgb_phys said:
The US could do more to help though - can't you pacify volcanoes by throwing people from Virginia into them?
Correction #1: People from right next door to Virginia. Elected officials only; plain old ordinary citizens don't count.

Correction #2: You also missed the tossing of PF annual award winners into the volcano as a placative effect.
 
  • #36


I never realized Iceland was such a picturesque place. I think that's my new dream vacation destination.

[PLAIN]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/Gullfoss-Iceland-20050724.jpg/800px-Gullfoss-Iceland-20050724.jpg Gullfoss

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Skogafoss_from_below.JPG/800px-Skogafoss_from_below.JPG[/URL] Skógafoss

[URL]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/Iceland_Dettifoss_1972-4.jpg/434px-Iceland_Dettifoss_1972-4.jpg[/URL] Dettifoss
 
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  • #37


brewnog said:
Rubbish. I was supposed to be going to Ireland for the weekend. Booo!

Surely you can get to Ireland without flying!
 
  • #38


@BobG: I had no idea either, but apparently that's where the Lord of The Rings movies were filmed. That would explain the vistas, but not why the movies were unwatchable. :biggrin:

Anyway, like California, isn't there always a big catch to that kind of natural beauty? :yikes:
 
  • #39


Frame Dragger said:
@BobG: I had no idea either, but apparently that's where the Lord of The Rings movies were filmed.
No, that was New Zealand

Anyway, like California, isn't there always a big catch to that kind of natural beauty? :yikes:
In Iceland? - occasional volcanoes and the ever present danger of Bjork encounters.

in New Zealand - no volcanoes and even the sheep are pretty tame.
 
  • #40


mgb_phys said:
No, that was New Zealand


In Iceland? - occasional volcanoes and the ever present danger of Bjork encounters.

in New Zealand - no volcanoes and even the sheep are pretty tame.

Oooooohhhh... heh.. no offense... well... a lot of people! :redface: Right, New Zealand = tastey lamb and people who will hang you by your ankles if you compare them to flightless birds. Iceland = "Uh.. didn't you know, that uh, Iceland is GREEN, and uh, Greenland ICEY. SHAZAM!" from a 15 year old.

Bjork... she's... interesting, in a "run you poor swan, RUN!" and "DON'T SAY 'Welcome To Bangkok!'" way. On the upside she's... ah... scary?

EDIT: Oh, and mgb... why are the sheep tame? What have you been doing to the poor... lambs?! "Tame" or "Tramatized"? :biggrin:
 
  • #41


mgb_phys said:
in New Zealand - no volcanoes and even the sheep are pretty tame.

You could be pecked by a kiwi, though.
 
  • #42


zoobyshoe said:
You could be pecked by a kiwi, though.

Too true mate, too true, still, better than steppin' on an inland Taipan, am I right?! *sound of unamused crickets*... right?!

Ehhh...
 
  • #44
I would just add that flying low = GAS GUZZLER.
 
  • #46
  • #47


Frame Dragger said:
EDIT: Oh, and mgb... why are the sheep tame? What have you been doing to the poor... lambs?! "Tame" or "Tramatized"? :biggrin:
Well compared to the island next door, where even the sheep are venomous.

Oh, New Zealand does have a few volcanoes but they are relatively polite and well behaved.
Cute note at the bottom of the NZ geological survey's web page
They have a link for questions, but note that "The Institute cannot determine exactly when the next eruption will occur"
 
  • #48
Can propellor planes fly safely throught the ash?
 
  • #49
Count Iblis said:
Can propellor planes fly safely throught the ash?

Most large propeller planes are turbo-props so have exactly the same engine as 'jets'.
However the ash is mostly at 20-30,000 ft so it's perfectly safe for anything to fly under it, small planes, turboprops, jets and helicopters.
But it's risky if you have to climb or descend through the cloud, or if the cloud moves - and you don't want to be the one explaining to the lawyers of a 747 full of victims why you ok'ed it.
 
  • #50


mgb_phys said:
Well compared to the island next door, where even the sheep are venomous.
Oh, New Zealand does have a few volcanoes but they are relatively polite and well behaved.
Cute note at the bottom of the NZ geological survey's web page
They have a link for questions, but note that "The Institute cannot determine exactly when the next eruption will occur"

I KNOW! Evolution took a really nasty turn when even the damned PLATYPUS (male) is venemous! For god's sake, the Aussies have a tick that can paralyze and kill you. A TICK. That makes Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and Lyme sound like a cool breeze!
 

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