sylas
Science Advisor
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Evo said:It's already been posted in the CRU hack thread, we discussed this there.
The hack thread contains an incredible amount of nonsense. What gets "pointed" out often just is not so, or spun in ways that distort what is said. If you are going to make this accusation about what the CRU has stated in THIS thread, give reasonable reference that let's us confirm it here, or clarify precisely what was said.
I repeat... I am quite sure you are mistaken on this. You have said above "they claim to not have knowledge of precisely which points were used".
That's not true. It is true that is not an easy thing to go through the combined database and pick out which points come from the propriety national data, which is a different statement entirely.
The specific data points requested were for this particular graph. http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/info/warming/
Oh good grief! That's the final data product! In fact it is a simple diagnostic of the final product, showing a global average. You are demonstrating my point.
You are asking then for ALL the points that were used, and I refer you AGAIN to my account above of why you can't have that.
If they DID go through and pick out the 95% of data that is freely available, then you could use that... but you can go and do that NOW. And people HAVE done that, and replicated the same results for that curve to well within the measurement uncertainties.
Indeed, it turns out that you can get within the measurement errors of that curve using as little as 10% of the underlying data. That curve is, after all, merely a global average of the gridded data product. If you use a smaller underlying input dataset -- even a MUCH smaller dataset -- you get significant differences in the gridded data, but the errors tend to even themselves out when you take a mean over the whole globe.
This is reasonably technical. A lot of people are very confused about how it is done. It isn't actually that hard, but you honestly are getting it wrong.
Cheers -- sylas
And added in edit to correct another mistaken assertion:
Evo said:CRU has not said that they do not have permission to release this data.
They've been explaining this now for years in relation to the FOI requests. The formal statement up at the East Anglia website explains it yet again. Here's an extract.
The University will make all the data accessible as soon as they are released from a range of non-publication agreements. Publication will be carried out in collaboration with the Met Office Hadley Centre.
The procedure for releasing these data, which are mainly owned by National Meteorological Services (NMSs) around the globe, is by direct contact between the permanent representatives of NMSs (in the UK the Met Office).
“We are grateful for the necessary support of the Met Office in requesting the permissions for releasing the information but understand that responses may take several months and that some countries may refuse permission due to the economic value of the data,” continued Professor Davies.
The remaining data, to be published when permissions are given, generally cover areas of the world where there are fewer data collection stations.[/color]
The procedure for releasing these data, which are mainly owned by National Meteorological Services (NMSs) around the globe, is by direct contact between the permanent representatives of NMSs (in the UK the Met Office).
“We are grateful for the necessary support of the Met Office in requesting the permissions for releasing the information but understand that responses may take several months and that some countries may refuse permission due to the economic value of the data,” continued Professor Davies.
The remaining data, to be published when permissions are given, generally cover areas of the world where there are fewer data collection stations.[/color]
You can find this all over the web, but alas the main UEA site seems to be down at present so I can't link direct to the original. But it's there. Evo is wrong from start to finish over this whole issue.
Cheers -- sylas
PPS. When the UEA website normal service is restored, you should be able to find the press statements at this link: http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements.
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