Selling like hotcakes The origins of popular phrases

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The discussion centers on the origins and meanings of various phrases, particularly "selling like hotcakes," which refers to items selling quickly and in large quantities. This phrase originated in the early 19th century, linked to the popularity of hot cakes sold at social events. Participants also explore the phrase "going off half-cocked," which has military roots related to firearms, indicating acting prematurely. The conversation touches on the accuracy of etymological sources, with skepticism about some online definitions and a preference for more authoritative references like the Oxford English Dictionary. Other phrases, such as "toe the line" and "letting the cat out of the bag," are discussed, revealing common misconceptions and evolving meanings over time. The dialogue reflects a fascination with language and its historical context, as well as a lighthearted exchange of thoughts on idioms and their usage.
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I used the phrase "selling like hotcakes" earlier and wondered about its origins.

SELL LIKE HOT CAKES - "Hot cakes cooked in bear grease or pork lard were popular from earliest times in American. First made of cornmeal, the griddle cakes or pancakes were of course best when served piping hot and were often sold at church benefits, fairs, and other functions. So popular were they that by the beginning of the 19th century 'to sell like hot cakes' was a familiar expression for anything that sold very quickly effortlessly, and in quantity." From "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997)
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/6/messages/241.html

In some cases I've found that I completely misuderstood the meaning of the phrase. For example, IIRC, the phrase "going off half-cocked" was an expression used in the civil war that literally meant that a soldier's gun was almost ready to fire. I don't know what exactly I thought it meant to be fully cocked, as opposed to half-cocked, but now it seems to refer more to a state of mind.
 
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Ivan Seeking said:
In some cases I've found that I completely misuderstood the meaning of the phrase. For example, IIRC, the phrase "going off half-cocked" was an expression used in the civil war that literally meant that a soldier's gun was almost ready to fire. I don't know what exactly I thought it meant to be fully cocked, as opposed to half-cocked, but now it seems to refer more to a state of mind.
Half-cock is a position of the cock on a flintlock. Here is an excerpt from the second sense of the headword "half-cock" from the OED:
oed said:
2. Of a fire-arm: The position of the cock or hammer when raised only half-way and held by the catch or half-bent, from which it cannot be moved by pulling the trigger.
Here is the third sense of "to go off half-cocked" also from the OED and giving a citation from 1833, long before the civil war.
oed said:
c. to go off half-cocked: to speak or act prematurely. U.S. colloq. 1833 Deb. Congress U.S. 31 Jan. 1521 The gentleman from Maryland has gone off half cocked.
 
Also, single-action Colts had a half-cock position from which the hammer could not be released by the trigger. This was a safety feature meant to ensure that the hammer was not resting on the percussion cap of the cartridge and would not accidentally fire a round if the gun was dropped or bumped. Winchester lever-action rifles also had this feature. To "go off half-cocked" was a very bad thing.

Earlier Colts (percussion-type pistols) had "safety pins" between the cap nipples. The guns could be carried with the hammer fully-down on one of these protruding pins without fear of accidental discharge.
 
I am suspiciouis of that citation from phrases.org.uk. For one thing, it is more of a definition than a phrase origin. The OED makes a valiant attempt to find the first citation in print for any word or phrase. Of course they aren't perfect and sometimes need to update the record with recent discoveries of older printed material. That said, the first citation for 'sell like hot cakes' is from 1839. This doesn't jibe with the website which says "by the beginning of the 19th century". This either means that they are privy to something that the OED overlooked (not impossible) or that they are talking through their hats, a common practice in many web sites that practice folk etymology on a grand scale.
 
Jimmy, the 19th century began on January 1, 1801 and ended on December 31, 1900.Mutters under breath ...I swan!
 
hypatia said:
Jimmy, the 19th century began on January 1, 1801 and ended on December 31, 1900.


Mutters under breath ...I swan!
So anything that happened "by the beginning of the 19th century" would have happened by Jan 1, 1801.
 
Give or take 20 or so years. The norm is before 1850, its the early side and after 1850 they consider the later side. They really don't divide it much more then that in general terms.
Granted there is a lot of leeway.
 
hypatia said:
Jimmy, the 19th century began on January 1, 1801 and ended on December 31, 1900.


Mutters under breath ...I swan!
Quit swaning! It's not lady-like!
 
turbo-1 said:
Quit swaning! It's not lady-like!

blushes
 
  • #10
hypatia said:
Give or take 20 or so years.
If I gave 'em 38 years, it still wouldn't be enough. I didn't say they were wrong, just that I am suspicious. I can't find any corroborating evidence. Can you?
 
  • #11
Evidence, naaaa. At this point, I ask myself of the possibilities, would it be a exaggeration, or is it reasonable to assume it may be true. Could be both, but as sayings {and hot cakes} go, 38 is just a wink of a eye.
Did I mention, I love hot cakes?
 
  • #12
Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I'll put my head on the block and go out on a limb and trust it as the gospel truth.
 
  • #13
My, how you slipped those sayings in. That was smoother then a frogs hair split 3 ways.
 
  • #14
hypatia said:
My, how you slipped those sayings in. That was smoother then a frogs hair split 3 ways.

I don't think you can split a frog hair 3 ways using only a straight edge and a compass. I think you have to resort to origami.
 
  • #15
hypatia said:
My, how you slipped those sayings in. That was smoother then a frogs hair split 3 ways.
That Ivan is a silver-tongued devil, smart as a whip, and slicker than a cup o' custard.
 
  • #16
You should avoid these cliches like the plague. I have come to realize that the site speaks of hot cakes and not hotcakes. I had an argument with a clerk at Payless Shoe Store concerning a similar distinction. I lost that one and ended up having to shell out for my selection. There must be better information somewhere, but I can't find it.
 
  • #17
Half-cock existed on more recent firearms than colts or flintlocks, such as shotguns and the SLE Mk 3, standard rifle of British army in WW1.
 
  • #18
'A pig in a poke', and 'letting the cat out of the bag' refer to the same thing. In olden days, con men would put a cat in a bag (which was called a poke) and sell it to someone as a baby pig for dinner.
 
  • #19
I always thought that "Toe the line" was actually "Tow the line". I think that enough people have been confused by this that they are now actually two distinct definitions and phrases.
 
  • #20
turbo-1 said:
and slicker than a cup o' custard.

My wife might prefer to say stubborn as a mule and able to test the patience of a saint.
 
  • #21
epenguin said:
Half-cock existed on more recent firearms than colts or flintlocks, such as shotguns and the SLE Mk 3, standard rifle of British army in WW1.
Half-cock has been implemented on MANY firearms. The reason I brought up Colt Single-Action Armies is that their half-cock was a primo safety feature. STILL, lots of smart fellas used to load only 5 chambers and leave the hammer on the empty one in case the half-cock failed in a tough spot. No use "shooting yourself in the foot" over a bit of carelessness.
 
  • #22
turbo-1 said:
lots of smart fellas used to load only 5 chambers and leave the hammer on the empty one in case the half-cock failed in a tough spot.

Pretty much everyone. There were no six-shooters in the old west, unless an idiot was involved. Even with my Super Blackhawk, I followed the rule: load one, skip one, load four and drop the hammer. That put it down on an empty chamber.
 
  • #23
TheStatutoryApe said:
I always thought that "Toe the line" was actually "Tow the line". I think that enough people have been confused by this that they are now actually two distinct definitions and phrases.

Similarly I think with with a long/tough row to hoe, being somewhat changed I see occasionally to long/tough road to hoe, that I don't make any great sense of. The former making sense to anyone that ever worked a field.
 
  • #24
Then there is the whole kit and caboodle, that as a kid I used to think was a cat reference of some sort.
 
  • #25
I mentioned "Paintin' the town red" yesterday, and an old fella said, "I got to google that thar phrase".

I must say, I do like these modern day googly young'un thing-a-ma-jigs. :smile:
 

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