Short Story Help: Time in a Timeless Space

[redph]

Hi,

I am currently writing a short story where a character travels to the future. This universe operates much like the George Ellis hypothesis where the future is not defined yet and we are always in the leading edge known as "now". Therefore, by traveling to the future he/she comes to a place where nothing is "as of yet". A timeless place. Now, disregard any paradoxes for the sake of discussion or at least, for my question. I'd like for my character to interact with somebody on that timeless place, but the act itself of interacting with someone, the way we interact with each other (talking or whatever that isn't instantaneous) would suggest a passage of time. So I'm caught in that dilemma. How would interaction be on a timeless place? Would events happen on such a place? If so, how?

 

[ZapperZ]

Hi,

I am currently writing a short story where a character travels to the future. This universe operates much like the George Ellis hypothesis where the future is not defined yet and we are always in the leading edge known as "now". Therefore, by traveling to the future he/she comes to a place where nothing is "as of yet". A timeless place. Now, disregard any paradoxes for the sake of discussion or at least, for my question. I'd like for my character to interact with somebody on that timeless place, but the act itself of interacting with someone, the way we interact with each other (talking or whatever that isn't instantaneous) would suggest a passage of time. So I'm caught in that dilemma. How would interaction be on a timeless place? Would events happen on such a place? If so, how?

You have created your own universe under some undefined "law". There is no way to know how thing will operate in this universe if you do not define what rules things should obey. Simply stating that it is "... a place where nothing is "as of yet"..." doesn't describe anything about this "timeless place".

So it is impossible for anyone to tell you how "events" would happen on a universe of your own invention.

You need to sit down and figure out what rules your "timeless place" needs to follow, especially on the motion of light (which, inherently, requires a passage of time). Otherwise, even the concept of "events" has no clear definition.

Zz.

 

[rootone]

If the future is not defined in any sense, at least probabalisticly, then there is no possibility you could travel to it.
Any attempt to travel to it defines it as including your arrival from the past,, so it becomes no longer undefined.

 

[redph]

You have created your own universe under some undefined "law". There is no way to know how thing will operate in this universe if you do not define what rules things should obey. Simply stating that it is "... a place where nothing is "as of yet"..." doesn't describe anything about this "timeless place".

So it is impossible for anyone to tell you how "events" would happen on a universe of your own invention.

You need to sit down and figure out what rules your "timeless place" needs to follow, especially on the motion of light (which, inherently, requires a passage of time). Otherwise, even the concept of "events" has no clear definition.

Zz.

Well, I wanted the story to operate in our universe. And when talking about the future, I have two choices (at least on my story): Einstein's "Everything is happening at once" where the future is set, and the other where the past and present is happening but the future is blank, we are riding on the leading edge of the ever expanding "time" (here's a quick read of George Ellis' hypothesis http://discovermagazine.com/2015/june/18-tomorrow-never-was). I wanted to use the second choice that I provided where my character arrives at a blank future. I know the attempt itself would probably create some sort of effect on the future but disregarding that, and if he indeed comes to a blank future, how do you think interaction on this timeless place can happen? I already have something in mind, I just want to know what you guys think.

 

[jack action]

Instead of imagining a blank future, you could imagine a future where all «nows» that could be possible coexist. Therefore, traveling to the future would actually mean «landing» in one of these possible future «nows» and your time traveler would just live time as it goes by in that specific future «now». The further you go in time, the more possible future «nows» there are.

 

[stefan r]

I would use a random number generator. The short story could consist of an extremely large number of scenes. But all of the story lines would be told using the standard alphabet and punctuation. Some letters are more likely to appear than others, "a" and "e" for instance. Also spaces. The probability of a period should increase with more characters since the last period. I am not a writer. The butterfly effect was good fiction. Your main character(s) could try out various futures. Seeing one of the possible futures changes the present.

 

[redph]

I would use a random number generator. The short story could consist of an extremely large number of scenes. But all of the story lines would be told using the standard alphabet and punctuation. Some letters are more likely to appear than others, "a" and "e" for instance. Also spaces. The probability of a period should increase with more characters since the last period. I am not a writer.The butterfly effect was good fiction. Your main character(s) could try out various futures. Seeing one of the possible futures changes the present.

Nice idea here.

 

[callie123]

This is interesting. This might not be what you're looking for...but what if you suggested that there's another way of perceiving time? Like, time could be like a painting of a scene. When we're in the scene, we only see parts of it. But if you're outside of it, you see the whole thing. So...what if your characters had a conversation, but the protagonist is somehow aware of the beginning and the end simultaneously?

 

[some bloke]

I'm struggling to understand what you mean by a timeless space.

do you mean that the character has traveled past the "front" of time, and is in an environment where nothing has yet been decided whether, where and how it exists?

The thing to consider is the timeline; For there to be a future for them to travel to, then the time must have passed in between the departure and arrival. From their perspective they jump from one to the next, but from the universes perspective, they disappear and then re-appear at the later time. The universe in which they landed must be the one which was defined by the act of their leaving in the first place. To further confuse this, if they jump back in time to any of the intermittent dates, then the universe they landed in on the first jump will either be replaced by a new one which reacts to their new landing, or will have already included their new landing in the first place. It's whether you treat the future as being a fluid thing which adapts to what is occurring now, or whether there are set futures, and every decision creates 2 futures, creating a complex tree of infinite possible futures. In the first case, there's a lot more thought needed in the timeline which has the results you want. In the latter case, there's the issue that you might run into your future self if you land in a future where you didn't do exactly what you're doing. which is weird...

"The strange affair of spring heeled Jack" is an excellent book which very cleverly winds its way around time travel. One of the characters travels back in time to stop something, and ends up killing his ancestor. He then travels back again to try and stop himself killing his ancestor, but arrives late and shouts out - this shout was what distracted him in the first place, and made him kill his ancestor. Then he travels further back, and ends up causing the thing he was trying to stop in the first place. It's clever stuff.

 

[rootone]

I'm struggling to understand what you mean by a timeless space.

Yes it is bit difficult to imagine a story line where nothing at all happens within an infinite scenery,

 

[greswd]

I'd like for my character to interact with somebody on that timeless place, but the act itself of interacting with someone, the way we interact with each other (talking or whatever that isn't instantaneous) would suggest a passage of time. So I'm caught in that dilemma. How would interaction be on a timeless place? Would events happen on such a place? If so, how?

Maybe the two characters could chat within a "time bubble" while the rest of the universe is frozen in place.

 

[member 656954]

I'd like for my character to interact with somebody on that timeless place

What is the intent of this interaction? That should tell you what your 'timeless' place needs to support.

And note that it can support anything you want, because it's science fiction, not a physics handbook. Just make it consistent, describe it briefly because it's a short and the bulk of readers don't want to be taken deep into theoretical constructs, and ignore trying to slavishly adhere to Ellis or Einstein. (Unless your point is to confirm one of those theories being true!)