Should I avoid a pure math route?

[fishfriend]

So I'm still doing some soul searching with finding a major. Currently I enjoy physics and math. However, while I'm good at the mathematical side of physics, conceptually I'm pretty frustratingly slow at it. Often I make the mistake of jumping right into the math without considering the actual physics of a problem. I am new at physics though, versus math where I'm not new at.

With background out of the way, here's the question. I've heard that doing a pure math degree is a bad idea - that those who major in pure math experience difficulty in finding a job and, when they do, don't make much money. Is that true? Should I avoid a pure math route?

 

[symbolipoint]

fishfriend, interesting that you are worried about finding a job when you graduate. Recognizing that job skills would be beneficial, you can start looking for ways to make some beneficial course choices. Certainly some members will jump in here and give you suggestions. ... wait a few minutes or hours and read what they say.

 

[WWGD]

As always, programming, knowledge of Stats would be helpful.

 

[gleem]

Mathematics has a multitude of applications which are all in demand including scientific computing, computer science, cryptography, economics, data analysis, actuarial science, business, operations research, modeling in various disciplines including biology and psychology, and of course the physical sciences and engineering. This type of math is now being called applicable math as opposed to applied math.

The point is to choose the area that you have and interest in and are reasonably skilled in and study those areas of math that are best suited to that application. You should know the subject that to which you are applying your math skills.

 

[Locrian]

Yea, I think it's totally possible to get an undergrad - or even all the way to PhD - math degree and have very few and very poor options when you graduate. This is also true of physics.

But the opposite is totally true for both math and physics - it all depends on what you study.

For undergrad, typical hedges are to get a comp sci or stats minor. However, you'll almost certainly be looking to get a graduate degree as well. You'll have more room (for better or worse) in you studies then.

 

[WWGD]

Although at the rate at which things change there is nothing nearing certainty anymore. But it seems in the data age * it seems the best bet.

*I think data age is more accurate than information age. Information is akin to signal and there definitely seems to be more noise than there is signal.

 

[DEvens]

The first choice is to find the thing that "glimmers." That's the thing that, when you are working on it, you don't find it a chore. You find that you have been productively working on it for hours and have not really noticed the time passing. You have to force yourself to quit to get some dinner or something.

If it's pure math, then study pure math. If it's some other flavor, study that.

If there is a subject like that, then that's the thing to study at university. Your life will be rewarding if you can work in that subject. Or something close to it. Because the work itself will draw you in and keep you industrious and productive. And doing a good job at something you care about is among the most rewarding experiences.

If you are worried about a job, then you should be looking for job skills. You won't automatically get those in any undergrad program. Indeed, you won't automatically get them in any university program.

Treat your undergrad as an "all you can learn" buffet. You have your major and its requirements. But there is still a lot of freedom in your class choices.

Industry is going to be looking for the ability to solve problems they have. They are also going to be looking for you to be able to pick up a problem and understand it quickly. So pure math won't be bad there.

But they are also going to be looking for you to have some kind of tool set already. Others have mentioned computers. It's a 4 year degree. Presumably you have time to learn some aspect of computers. There are many specific areas that might well match a pure math degree.

Look for an "interpersonal skills" type of class. One of the big things that holds back a lot of people in industry is being able to talk to other people. Look for various communication type classes.

If you are going to PhD then you want breadth. Don't disdain the non-math classes, especially if you can find a subject over there with some "glimmer." An anthropology class or a philosophy class or a world religions class might be very interesting. It might even get you some new friends.

 

[WWGD]

Like I have recommended elsewhete, see if you can learn about project management. It gives you a good idea about the overall world of business and on how different aspects of business come together .

 

[Eclair_de_XII]

Yea, I think it's totally possible to get an undergrad - or even all the way to PhD - math degree and have very few and very poor options when you graduate.

I can personally attest to this. But granted, I was extraordinarily poor at planning ahead.

 

[member 587159]

I am always baffled when people say that people with a mathematics education have trouble finding a job. At my country, mathematicians are highly desired because there are not enough of them and they get high paying jobs, especially when they go into finance.

 

[WWGD]

I am always baffled when people say that people with a mathematics education have trouble finding a job. At my country, mathematicians are highly desired because there are not enough of them and they get high paying jobs, especially when they go into finance.

Where is this? Do you mean Phds? Save a spot for me.

 

[member 587159]

Where is this? Do you mean Phds? Save a spot for me.

Belgium. And even if you do a PHD, you get paid as much as a usual job (sometimes even more).

 

[S.G. Janssens]

I can recommend Belgium, and that means something coming from a Dutchman.

 

[WWGD]

I can recommend Belgium, and that means something coming from a Dutchman.

Both of you embarrass native English speakers by speaking it and writing it better!

 

[symbolipoint]

I am always baffled when people say that people with a mathematics education have trouble finding a job. At my country, mathematicians are highly desired because there are not enough of them and they get high paying jobs, especially when they go into finance.

As what job or position? Mathematician?

I suspect more realistically, the person picked-up other job strengths or skills or training and finds jobs, usually other than "Mathematician". Maybe several engineers, computer programmers, computer scientists, other people associated with physical or biological sciences, management planners, or several other sorts of things, and some of these people also have a degree at some level, Mathematics; maybe some included courses gave some of them some important skills or experiences so important to some job they might be keeping for a long time.

 

[member 587159]

As what job or position? Mathematician?

I suspect more realistically, the person picked-up other job strengths or skills or training and finds jobs, usually other than "Mathematician". Maybe several engineers, computer programmers, computer scientists, other people associated with physical or biological sciences, management planners, or several other sorts of things, and some of these people also have a degree at some level, Mathematics; maybe some included courses gave some of them some important skills or experiences so important to some job they might be keeping for a long time.

Of course they picked up another skill. The only jobs where a mathematician can do pure mathematics are either teaching or research. Most mathematics degrees I'm aware of offer some statistics and computer science courses which are useful for jobs. Moreover, mathematicians are (just like physicists) problem solvers and thus useful for any kind of company that needs some thinking, modelling, etc.

 

[StatGuy2000]

To the OP:

As others have already attested to here, whether an undergraduate math degree is employable or not depends crucially on what (additional) skills the students gain during their studies. It is possible to graduate with a pure math degree (or any other math degree) and lack employable skills. It is also possible to graduate with a pure math degree and be highly employable.

For example, say you decide to pursue a pure math degree track. If you add elective courses in, say, computer science or statistics, or even economics or business courses in addition to your pure math courses, you would end up gaining skills that could serve you very well in the job market (this is assuming you don't end up pursuing graduate studies).

So my advice to you is to take the opportunity while you are pursuing your math degree (whether pure or applied) to take as wide a set of elective courses as possible (including at least a few computer science and statistics courses).

Another piece of advice that is very important -- while you are pursuing your math degree, apply for and seek either internships during the summer, or research opportunities during the summer. It is absolutely critical for those pursuing a math degree to be able to demonstrate actual job experience, and nothing is better in that regard than internships or research experience.

Just my 2 cents worth!