News Should public prayer be banned near courthouses?

[drankin]

I get my news from Fox.com because it's my preferred form of biased media. Anyhow, I just found this article that I found interesting: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/15/students-ordered-stop-praying-outside-supreme-court-building/

It brings up some questions. Should public prayer ever be suppressed? And, wtf was that police officer thinking?

I don't expect the police to know what every single law of the land is. I expect them to utilize some common sense about what is and isn't a crime. Apparently, common sense to this officer was that public prayer is against the law near the courthouse. Where does this come from?

Provided it's not infringing on the rights of another somehow, like preventing them access to a location, or possibly creating some kind of danger to those around (some religions might have some crazy prayer rituals), how could someone see a prayer circle as a prohibited activity?

 

[Cyrus]

Considering I just saw a chaplain give an opening prayer on the floor of congress today on CSPAN, my guess is he's wrong.

 

[Evo]

Wouldn't they need a permit to gather and hold a peaceful demonstration? As long as they are moving, they wouldn't be loitering. Sounds like loitering at a minimum.

 

[drankin]

Considering I just saw a chaplain give an opening prayer on the floor of congress today on CSPAN, my guess is he's wrong.

I so want to know the flak this cop is getting over this...

Even if it's just among his fellow officers. LOL!

But, my point being, where does this come from?

 

[drankin]

Wouldn't they need a permit to gather and hold a peaceful demonstration?

Is it a demonstration? Technically?

 

[KalamMekhar]

Wow. Just insane. Courthouse rent-a-cop?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What a dolt. Apparently he doesn't understand the difference between government-sponsored prayer, and freedom of speech.

 

[Evo]

Don't forget that the officer may have just told them to move along, because gathering like that may not be allowed. Are we no longer questioning over hyped news articles?

 

[KalamMekhar]

So, standing in a circle is not allowed on a public street?

 

[Evo]

So, standing in a circle is not allowed on a public street?

Depends on the laws for gathering and loitering.

Plus, they were gathering on the property of the Supreme Court?

We don't really know what happened since we only have the group's interpretation.

 

[KalamMekhar]

Depends on the laws for gathering and loitering.

Plus, they were gathering on the property of the Supreme Court?

The students were part of a junior high school American History class at Wickenburg Christian Academy in Arizona. After taking pictures on the steps of the Supreme Court building, their teacher gathered them to a side location where

Sounds to me like they were on a sidewalk.

 

[Evo]

Sounds to me like they were on a sidewalk.

Doesn't sound like it to me. I'm surprised that people are jumping to conclusions.

 

[rootX]

So the group of 15 students and seven adults left the Supreme Court and relocated to a sidewalk – where Rigo said the children stood in a gutter – and continued their prayer.

I don't think the news provides sufficient details other than that they were on the Supreme Court property and second that they carried on with their prayers without any interruptions after leaving Supreme Court.

 

[rootX]

Sounds to me like they were on a sidewalk.

See the above post.

 

[KalamMekhar]

IN A GUTTER! If they were on the sidewalk, and not disrupting the flow of pedestrian traffic in any way, they have done nothing wrong. If they were on SC land, they could be asked to leave and continue on elsewhere. But if they were asked to leave SC land, wouldn't everyone have to be asked to leave SC land if they were talking to someone?

 

[Gokul43201]

See article below - it was written by the teacher in the incident above. In it, she describes the incident at the SC, and another similar incident at the White House, and draws parallels with these and Nazi Germany! Nice!

http://www.sonorannews.com/archives/2010/100616/frntpg_WCA_Praying.html

After the White House stop students received a more sobering kind of education as they visited the Holocaust Museum. Some commented on the way the horror in Germany began so simply with the removal of rights for the Jews while so many others looked the other way. Is it beginning here to Christians in America today they asked? Discussion centered around the rights we are willing to give up in order to be safe. The question of the day was; Are we giving up our rights for security? If so, where does that stop? The rest of the evening was spent at the Lincoln, Korean, and Vietnam memorials.

So what did the students learn? They learned that freedom isn’t free. They learned that many of our liberties are being curtailed or taken away in the name of security. They learned that our nation desperately needs good leadership. They learned that now, more than ever before, they need to be praying for our country.

Yeah, she did a Godwin.

 

[KalamMekhar]

Damnit, why can't religious people keep their mouth shut and quit giving us a bad name. I don't go about crying foul whenever someone makes fun of Catholics.

 

[Evo]

IN A GUTTER! If they were on the sidewalk, and not disrupting the flow of pedestrian traffic in any way, they have done nothing wrong. If they were on SC land, they could be asked to leave and continue on elsewhere. But if they were asked to leave SC land, wouldn't everyone have to be asked to leave SC land if they were talking to someone?

Kalam, they moved to the sidewalk AFTER the officer told them to move.

 

[Evo]

See article below - it was written by the teacher in the incident above. In it, she describes the incident at the SC, and another similar incident at the White House, and draws parallels with these and Nazi Germany! Nice!

http://www.sonorannews.com/archives/2010/100616/frntpg_WCA_Praying.html



Yeah, she did a Godwin.

As I figured, they weren't told that they couldn't pray, they were told that they couldn't gather there.

 

[KalamMekhar]

“This police officer acted reprehensibly,” Franks said. “Those students had every right to pray there on the steps of the Supreme Court.”

Arguement withdrawn, although it does say they have prayed there before without incident.

 

[NeoDevin]

Subscribing to this thread on PF Mobile.

 

[Al68]

I don't expect the police to know what every single law of the land is. I expect them to utilize some common sense about what is and isn't a crime. Apparently, common sense to this officer was that public prayer is against the law near the courthouse. Where does this come from?

It ultimately comes from the widespread notion that a legitimate function of government is a parental or guardianship role over people in general. The Enlightenment just didn't take hold in many ways for many people.

 

[drankin]

I think Evo may be right though. There may be some law concerning gathering near the SC. I know that they have stepped up security recently and the judges aren't even allowed to enter through the front of the building anymore.

 

[ThomasT]

IShould public prayer ever be suppressed?

Yes, but indirectly, starting at a young age. Children should be taught the art (and joy) of critical thinking. They should be taught not to take anybody's word for anything, but to learn the truth, as best they can, from publicly available evidence. Belief without evidence is a very very dangerous and foolish thing.