Should we Colonize the Moon or Mars first?

[William Clark]

I have reasons that have convinced me that Mars would be better, but I want to know what everybody else thinks.

 

[berkeman]

Why colonize either at this moment in history? Or do you mean in a few centuries?

 

[Evo]

I have reasons that have convinced me that Mars would be better, but I want to know what everybody else thinks.

Why? And please post peer reviewed scientific published papers only as your sources.

And please, no one jumping in with personal opinions.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

It would be vastly easier and more beneficial to colonise Earth more. The deserts, the ice caps, the ocean surfaces and floors, the mountains, the tundra and even underground. Figure out how to do all that whilst maintaining the biosphere and you might have some spin off technologies that would help space enthusiasts go and live elsewhere.

 

[|Glitch|]

I have reasons that have convinced me that Mars would be better, but I want to know what everybody else thinks.

I see no reason why we would colonize either, as we understand the meaning of the word. Will we ever establish a long-term/permanent base for the purpose of scientific research, or providing mission resources, on either the moon or Mars, or both? Probably. Will we ever send settlers to the moon or Mars to establish political control, a.k.a. "colonize?" Not in the foreseeable future.

NASA is already considering using the moon to generate fuel and predeploy those, and other resources, for missions to Mars and other destinations.

In-Situ Resource Utilization (ISRU) Capability Roadmap - Sanders et. al., NASA Executive Summary (2005) [PDF]

 

[Evo]

Private Mars Colony Project May Not Be Feasible, Study Suggests

http://www.space.com/27451-private-mars-colony-feasibility-study.html

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

I'm not sure we have enough data to answer the question.

The human body suffers some serious problems in long term microgravity. We don't know what effects simply low gravity will have or how we could resolve them. It might be that low gravity combined with proper exercise (possibly under artificial gravity) would solve these issues, but we just don't know what level of low gravity is healthy. It may be that either or both are available for colonization. Or not.

 

[phion]

Logically, I think we'd have to set up some kind of forward base on the moon before we could maintain any kind of consistent transport of supply to mars.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Logically, I think we'd have to set up some kind of forward base on the moon before we could maintain any kind of consistent transport of supply to mars.

Agreed. The moon is much easier to take off from and return to Earth. If there was a disaster on a moon base the scientists and other staff cod get back to the safety of Earth within days.

 

[DiracPool]

Logically, I think we'd have to set up some kind of forward base on the moon before we could maintain any kind of consistent transport of supply to mars.

Why is that? Don’t you think we’d have to get the supplies out of Earth’s gravity well first in either case? Then we are going to have to re-launch them from the moon?

 

[Jeff Rosenbury]

Why is that? Don’t you think we’d have to get the supplies out of Earth’s gravity well first in either case? Then we are going to have to re-launch them from the moon?

For goods made on Earth, that is true. But most of the goods (by mass anyway) might be made on the moon. Fuel, water, and radiation shielding could all be made on the moon. Possibly carbon and other biologicals could allow hydroponics inputs as well.

They could be placed into orbit with some sort of quasi-reactionless drive cheaply due to the lower gravity and lack of atmosphere.

 

[|Glitch|]

Why is that? Don’t you think we’d have to get the supplies out of Earth’s gravity well first in either case? Then we are going to have to re-launch them from the moon?

Actually, fuel, oxygen, water, and other resources can be produced on the moon and supplied to a spacecraft in space at a fraction of the cost it would cost to launch the same resources from Earth. That would also reduce the costs of launching from Earth as well, since those resources will not have be launched from Earth.

 

[Muti]

Any way do someone know what experts think between moon or Mars for colonizing?

 

[Evo]

Any way do someone know what experts think between moon or Mars for colonizing?

Private Mars Colony Project May Not Be Feasible, Study Suggests

http://www.space.com/27451-private-mars-colony-feasibility-study.html

 

[micromass]

Private Mars Colony Project May Not Be Feasible, Study Suggests

http://www.space.com/27451-private-mars-colony-feasibility-study.html

That does not seem like a peer reviewed paper to me.

 

[Evo]

It's an MIT study, close enough. I also allowed the NASA paper.

 

[micromass]

It's not what you asked for:

Why? And please post peer reviewed scientific published papers only as your sources.

 

[Evo]

It's not what you asked for:

See my reply above, in GD, if the papers are from valid, known sources, I'll allow them, I just don't want any mass media or pop-sci stuff.

 

[micromass]

Then I would like you to post the original source instead of an article saying what the source says.

 

[Evo]

Then I would like you to post the original source instead of an article saying what the source says.

Shall I delete the NASA paper also since it's posted on a blog?

 

[micromass]

No, because that is the original paper. I do not find the original paper anywhere in your source.

 

[Evo]

Then I would like you to post the original source instead of an article saying what the source says.

Here you go. http://www.iafastro.net/iac/paper/id/24778/summary/

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/90819

More information if people are interested. http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/technical-feasibility-mars-one-1014

 

[micromass]

Thank you very much!

 

[Evo]

Thank you very much!

You're very welcome, I should have posted the original study, but didn't since it was GD and the article was from a good source, anyway members always have the right to request the original source.

 

[Astronuc]

You're very welcome, I should have posted the original study, but didn't since it was GD and the article was from a good source, anyway members always have the right to request the original source.

I think an article from a credible journalistic source, which reports a scientific study, and in the case of MIT, it is likely reviewed before publishing, is reasonable.

Human space exploration is a highly subjective matter. Certainly one can have serious discussions on the science and technology, but the wheres and whyfors, can be highly subjective, and even speculative, since no one has done it yet.

I was part of a group of grad students who looked at propulsion systems for missions to Mars about 30 years ago. Part of the group looked a nuclear power systems for power plants on Mars.

Returning to the moon with a manned based would be very costly - in the $10's of billions, and a mission to Mars in the $100's of billions. There are some critical considerations with respect to infrastructure, particularly sustainable infrastructure.

What was proposed at the time was the Moon first, then mining lunar materials to send to Mars, because the energy requirements to lift a given mass from the moon is a lot less than lifting it from earth. However, that requires considerable infrastructure to be delivered from the Earth to the moon first, although one might devise a robotic based mining and manufacturing system for the moon, which would build infrastructure on the moon and later send material to mars.

There were several Mars mission scenarios. One I liked was sending a Skylab (or larger scale) system to Martian orbit first, so that a smaller (less massive) manned craft could make a faster transit to Mars, and dock with the Martian station. Another scenario had a station built in Phobos or Deimos. Basically, there needs to be a shielded habitat with supplies in space that can support astronauts before a Martian surface base is established.

Another big challenge is the lack of atmosphere on Mars, because one can't use aerobraking.

Anyway, the Lunar Planetary Institute.

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/leag/

http://mepag.jpl.nasa.gov/