erobz said:
This is an internet science forum. We aren't working with each other in person where we have visual ques (maybe...) to what "gender identity" the others might wish to be
...which is exactly why, if what pronouns are used/what gender they are matters to someone (which is usually the case when they're not the default "he/him" and don't want to be constantly referred to as "he/him" just because people online tend to default to that), they should have the option of being able to display that asily on their profile.
erobz said:
Using vague generalities "they/them" surrounding sexual/gender identity (or the profile name i.e. "
@TensorCalculus ") when addressing a poster should be pretty sound strategy/ and less hassle?
DaveC426913 said:
It certainly makes sense as an option on profile pages, but in conversation (unless explicitly stated) I've always liked the idea that gender is wonderfully irrelevant online (the great equalizer).
And I think the obfuscation of gender actually works to encourage the use of the gender-neutral "they" when gender is unknown*. More people using the "they" pronoun is a good thing.
* I go to great lengths to use 'they', rather than the default 'he'.
Of course, I have no problem whatsoever with people using they/them to address people: that's perfectly fine and I wouldn't be asking for this change if everyone used "they". But lots of people use "he" to address anyone because their first assumption is that they are talking to a male (which is sort of fair enough on PF where the majority are male): and it happens not just on PF but
everywhere. And some people like being able to address people using their preferred pronouns: sometimes repeatedly trying to refer to a person using their profile name or "they" can feel a bit awkward. If you make it optional to put pronouns on one's profile banner (easily accessible with a quick hover) then it gives those for whom it does matter freedom to put it on there.
berkeman said:
But I do see posts and replies in the open forums all the time using "he" or "guys" when it may not be applicable. I've often wondered if I were a female in my same position how much that would tick me off. None/little, or a lot?
To answer this question, for me and most others:
At first, confusion: "huh, why do they just assume I'm male by default? I thought my name and profile were pretty gender neutral. What happened to using they/them?"
Then, after 10 or so instances, anger: "Hey, we're just as good as boys: how come everyone makes the assumption I'm a boy? Why are they referring to whole groups of people as guys when it's not applicable? That's so annoying!"
Then, after it happens 25+ times (which was the case for me well before I joined PF), you just kind of... get used to it. Like... "oh. oh well."
DaveC426913 said:
It becomes a matter, then, of whether we put the onus the individual to stand up for themselves on a case-by-case basis ("Excuse me, please address me as a she"), or whether we strive, in some small part, to bring a larger awareness of archaic gender-bias issues to the masses. Do we support TC? Or is she* on her own?
Not sure how we'd do that. I'm not suggesting we impose gender-neutral pronouns, just ... like the idea in principle.
Of course, we could let us girls (and non-binary, etc etc) stand up for themselves but... it gets a bit awkward and tiring after a while, saying "Excuse me, please address me as a she" every couple of days...
DaveC426913 said:
* Now that she has identified her preferred gender, I will go to lengths to respect that. Although I will definitely forget almost immediately. But that's my problem, not hers. (Because I am indeed a dinosaur, and do continue default to male identities by habit.)
appreciated! :)
well, you wouldn't
have to remember if there were pronouns on profile banners :)
erobz said:
My position is "I don't know and frankly I don't care"...it's irrelevant to the validity of what is being discussed in this place. Hate me if you must...
Yeah, I totally understand your point: adding pronouns doesn't change the quality or validity of the science, this is a physics forum. But it
does help cultivate the community, just a bit. Especially making girls feel less like they're out of place because well... they're a girl, and many on this forum don't use "they" to refer to people, or groups of people: and most of the people on here are men.
DaveC426913 said:
Right. But it is relevant to TC. We should respect that.
