Shyness a factor for unsuccessful career?

[proton]

have any of you guys read those self-help books that try to improve your self-esteem? are they helpful? Or would it be better if I just see a counselor? I've seen counselors before when I had depression, but they didn't help much. I got out of depression basically once I found my purpose in life once high school ended, which is to pursue physics.
I'm asking because right now I think I'm too shy and passive of a person. I guess for the math and physics majors, its fairly common for one to be shy? Some of the great physicists and mathematicians were successful despite having severe psychological problems, but it was because of their intense passion and genius, which I lack. But how big of a problem will this be? I'm currently spending my last semester at a community college and will be transferring, so I'll have to meet new fellow physics majors and professors. If I stay too shy I won't be able to make many friends, and I'll hesitate to get letters of recommendation and ask for research opportunities, right? What about all the difficult people I may have to deal with in the future?

 

[Cyrus]

Just learn how to deal with people. If you want to go anywhere in life you need a network of people you can use to your advantage. If you continue to keep to yourself you can expect to work behind the same miserable desk for the rest of your life.

What do you mean by shy?

 

[proton]

Yeah I know that I'll have to just deal with people. But what's the best way for that? Would getting a part-time job help? I'm unable to find any tutoring jobs at my college.
I'm shy in that I worry about what others think about me even though I keep trying to tell myself that their opinions aren't important. Like when we do labs in groups, I often don't speak up for fear of looking dumb and not following directions (I've noticed that I really do miss directions often).
My shyness has definitely improved this semester since I attended a new community college. In the first day of class, I was kind of paranoid of all the students, but I've realized that the students are pretty nice so I've lightened up and spoken up a little more.

 

[Cyrus]

I'm shy in that I worry about what others think about me even though I keep trying to tell myself that their opinions aren't important.

Everyone has that issue to some degree or another. Personally, I think I know more or less what people think about me. I know myself and my personality traits. I can tell that some people don’t get along with me. It’s a personality difference. I’m not rude to them, but I don’t give a damn if they don’t like me. Screw them, I know lots of other people that do like me and visa versa.

The people you don’t like/get along with you just say hi when you see them and go about your business. You’re not obligated to care about them, heck I don’t.

If you want everyone to like you, no one will like you. Why?..because everyone has different personalities. You can’t satisfy every one simultaneously.

You don't need a part time job. That would be pointless. Just talk to the guy sitting next to you in class about some stupid crap, and the next time you see him he/she will say hi to you and start talking with you about something...probably just casual conversation.

Honestly, the only time I worry about what other people think of me is if I offend them by accident.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Someone once told me that shy people are narcissists. They think everyone is focusing on them and judging them. In truth, that's not the case. Most people are just walking around in their own little worlds and can't be bothered to even form an opinion about you.

Listen to Cyrus.

And grow a backbone, honey.

 

[proton]

"I don’t give a damn if they don’t like me."
"If you want everyone to like you, no one will like you. Why?..because everyone has different personalities. You can’t satisfy every one simultaneously."
I wouldn't mind if people don't like me either. I just have a fear of when people hate me. Plenty of people in the past really hated me, so I have an intense fear of that. People have hated me in the past when I appear as a "smartass" or when I live an awkward life (I spend my free time trying to learn, rather than playing video games, partying, having a lot of friends, and the other things typical college students do)

"You don't need a part time job."
Well I was just thinking getting extra practice in interacting with people since I hardly see anyone outside of school.

"Someone once told me that shy people are narcissists. "
That's how I was in high school. Then, I returned to that attitude last semester, and felt horrible. That's why I'm motivated in trying to restore my life back to normal

 

[Math Is Hard]

I wouldn't mind if people don't like me either. I just have a fear of when people hate me. Plenty of people in the past really hated me, so I have an intense fear of that.

Were they mean to you? Were you bullied?

 

[Cyrus]

Plenty of people in the past really hated me, so I have an intense fear of that.

Who "really hated you", some kids from high school?

Well I was just thinking getting extra practice in interacting with people since I hardly see anyone outside of school.

There are MORE than enough people at school for you to meet. You don't need to run off finding a job with your tail between your legs. Get over high school, no one cares about it anymore.

Not me, not anyone here reading these posts, nor anyone you will run into on the street. NO ONE CARES or even knows about your problems. In fact, if you start talking to them about your problems they would probably leave you and walk away simply because they don't want to deal with it.


Either you are hanging around too many immature people, you yourself are immature and interpret people the wrong way, or a combination of the two. Now that youre in college, I don't think its the other people that are immature. College is a place for adults. People hating each other doesn't really happen.

You sound paranoid.

 

[moose]

You aren't important enough to others for them to hate you.

If someone thinks you're weird, they will think it even more if you are shy.

 

[BillJx]

I was shy most of my life, and my lack of social success at college was one of the reasons I didn't stay with it when I was young. I'm decades older now, quite self confident and not really shy at all.
Don't take theories about shyness too seriously. Mine included!

There are different forms of shyness. Much of it is situational, and is lack of comfort in a specific setting. Some of it is created by your own beliefs.

Speak to people. When you buy something, make a point of interacting with the clerk. Not a lot, just a smile and a "thanks".

In a social setting, you might notice someone else who looks ill at ease. Talk to them, make them feel as if they're fitting in.

It's mostly a matter of practice. The more you interact with people the more natural it will become. And make it about them. That is, be conscious of how they feel, not just how you feel. People want to be recognized. More than you might realize, people want to feel that you recognize their existence. Many, many people are inwardly lonely or insecure, but don't show it. Don't overplay it, just realize that when you interact with people a bit, you are doing something good for them as well as for yourself.

Look for an organization called Toastmasters. It's an international non-profit club in which members help one another learn to speak in front of a group. The thought may fill a shy person with terror, but most extraverts feel exactly the same way! Technically, of course, speaking to a group is easier than one-on-one conversation because it doesn't require the same flexibility. It's only uncomfortable because it requires a new set of skills. It's that "situational" shyness. But because it's a controlled situation, you can develop a level of comfort there, and then find that your interpersonal comfort has increased as well. Over the period of a year or two it will develop your confidence more than you can imagine.

 

[radou]

I guess for the math and physics majors, its fairly common for one to be shy?

Based on my experience, it's almost the complete opposite.

so I'll have to meet new fellow physics majors and professors. If I stay too shy I won't be able to make many friends, and I'll hesitate to get letters of recommendation and ask for research opportunities, right?

Meeting new people is a great thing. Think of all the advantages you'll have from that.

What about all the difficult people I may have to deal with in the future?

S**ew them. Remember, the more "difficult" someone is, basically, the more unsecure he (or she) is. Once you learn how to deal, you'll feel much better. Breaking the ice isn't so hard as it looks. Once you break it, you'll never want to return under it.

 

[Astronuc]

Shyness a factor for unsuccessful career?

Shyness, or being too deferential, can be limiting in a career.

Shyness is not a form of narcissim, and one is not being paranoid, but perhaps a bit too self-conscious.

It would appear that one needs to develop a reasonable level of assertiveness.

Assertiveness is a skill taught by many personal development experts and psychotherapists and the subject of many popular self-help books. It is linked to self-esteem and considered an important communication skill.

As a communication style and strategy, assertiveness is distinguished from aggression and passivity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assertiveness

http://www.couns.uiuc.edu/brochures/assertiv.htm

http://www.utexas.edu/student/cmhc/booklets/assert/assertive.html

http://www.tufts.edu/hr/tips/assert.html

http://www.coping.org/relations/assert.htm


Like Cyrus mentioned, seek out people with whom one can develop mature relationships, and there are plenty of people out there.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

It sounds like you are afraid to approach people, but genuinely want to. Maybe something you went through during your childhood or whatever, its irrelevant.

I am not a 'professional', whatever that means in this case, but if I were you, I would just join a club or two that I might find interesting. Whatever kind of club it is, bowling, math, physics, chess, it doesn't matter, just make sure its something you like so that you don't grind your teeth when people want to talk to you about it, heh. You will get the opportunity to 'practice' your social skills. A part time job may help but ussually you can get by without becomming friends with people at a job (depending on the job), but at a club I think its a setting that really promotes socializing.

Why not take advantage of your counsellor as well, after all, its someone to talk to, right? It sounds like you need someone to ask questions related to this kinda stuff, so maybe it might help.

You can buy books too, maybe they will give you motivation, or just ideas for stuff to talk about with new buddies.

There will always be difficult people, people whom think they are better than you, but in most cases it shouldn't really matter. As long as you are pursuing your goals and are happy with your lifestyle, that's what should come first. One thing I wouldn't suggest is to get mad at them (unless I suppose it crosses the line, but I can't see that happening after high school unless you are walking through a bad neighbourhood, heh). Just don't waste your time and carry on your way.

 

[proton]

"Were they mean to you? Were you bullied?"
just last semester I had to deal with this jerk who seemed like his goal in life was to try to put me down. The semester before (last spring) is when the conflict started with this guy. I was in a good mood, laughed a lot in class, and spoke up in class discussions alot. I was trying to be nice to this jerk, but all he did was insult me. I figured the problem was that I was being too goofy and looked stupid, so I decided to get more serious over the summer. Then I met him again last fall, took his insults really seriously, and now I trying to get happy again.

"S**ew them. Remember, the more "difficult" someone is, basically, the more unsecure he (or she) is. Once you learn how to deal, you'll feel much better. Breaking the ice isn't so hard as it looks. Once you break it, you'll never want to return under it. "
I guess the best way to deal with jerks is to practice assertiveness and forgive them, right?

"There will always be difficult people, people whom think they are better than you, but in most cases it shouldn't really matter."
That's comforting to hear.

 

[Cyrus]

I woulda said something snappy back to the guy infront of the class to make him look like the fool he is.

Learn to stand up for yourself.

I guess the best way to deal with jerks is to practice assertiveness and forgive them, right?

NO! Dont hold a grude, but don't walk around saying 'hey I forgive you for treating me bad." If you do that, you're a chump. People will walk all over you for the rest of your life, including your future boss.

I was trying to be nice to this jerk, but all he did was insult me.

Why? What reason did you have to be nice to him? Why couldn't you ignore him?

 

[radou]

I guess the best way to deal with jerks is to practice assertiveness and forgive them, right?

Not right. Actually, that doesn't fit into the definition of assertiveness.

Save your forgiveness and nice words for people who deserve it.

 

[proton]

"Why? What reason did you have to be nice to him? Why couldn't you ignore him?"
This was before I realized what a jerk he was. At first, I assumed he was just kidding when he threw insults at me. Then, I tried ignoring him but he probably felt good seeing that I wasn't as cheerful as I was before.

What's the best way to improve my assertiveness? Just reading those links by Astronuc probably won't be enough. Would seeing a counselor help? or getting one of those self-help books?

 

[JasonRox]

It's mostly a matter of practice. The more you interact with people the more natural it will become. And make it about them. That is, be conscious of how they feel, not just how you feel. People want to be recognized. More than you might realize, people want to feel that you recognize their existence. Many, many people are inwardly lonely or insecure, but don't show it. Don't overplay it, just realize that when you interact with people a bit, you are doing something good for them as well as for yourself.

I totally agree. It's all about practice.

Think about this for second. Have you ever seen someone come out of relationship and totally forgot how to approach the opposite sex? It's probably because they never communicated with the opposite sex except for their significant other for such a long time that they forgot although they knew how before. This is what I don't understand with people in relationships. They think talking to the opposite sex is some kind disloyal or a little flirt is bad, but really it's healthy. Not only for you, but you're partner as well.

Anyways, you just have to get out there and do whatever.

I used to be shy, but I took drama class and that put an end to most of my shyness. I was still shy around girls at the time, but now it's all good. Some guys think I look stupid because I'll bring up topics around girls that they can never even think of doing. But that takes practice to do it right.

Social skills is a set of skills developped.

 

[JasonRox]

"Why? What reason did you have to be nice to him? Why couldn't you ignore him?"
This was before I realized what a jerk he was. At first, I assumed he was just kidding when he threw insults at me. Then, I tried ignoring him but he probably felt good seeing that I wasn't as cheerful as I was before.

What's the best way to improve my assertiveness? Just reading those links by Astronuc probably won't be enough. Would seeing a counselor help? or getting one of those self-help books?

Believe it or not, they can probably help. Also, exercise and dieting can help too. Most people don't eat healthy or don't lead active lifestyles, which isn't healthy in itself. I find that most athletes I meet are very social and assertive. Sure they might be stupid at times, but atleast they developped a lot of other skills most other people haven't.

 

[radou]

What's the best way to improve my assertiveness? Just reading those links by Astronuc probably won't be enough. Would seeing a counselor help? or getting one of those self-help books?

Try to do something that you always wanted to do. Put up a sport or some type of activity. There must be something. It will help you think better about yourself and it will help you show yourself that you can achieve a goal if you really want to. Once you become aware of that fact, you'll be in possession of a powerful tool, which, if used wisely, can keep you happy and successful constantly.

I wouldn't rely on books. If you can, talk to someone whom you're really close to. Share experiences and problems, and you'll become aware of the fact that you're not the only one with this type of problems. This should comfort you, too.

 

[Astronuc]

What's the best way to improve my assertiveness? Just reading those links by Astronuc probably won't be enough. Would seeing a counselor help? or getting one of those self-help books?

I don't think self-help books would tell one much different that isn't summarized in those links.

Counselors vary in effectiveness, and may or may not be helpful. One has to find the right one. Ask oneself - "What would a counselor tell me that I don't already know?"

Assertiveness comes with self-realization (and realization of self-worth) and self-acceptance.

BillJx, JasonRox and Radou give some good advice. Exercise (running, weight training, some sport (individual or team)), eating right, developing a skill or becoming proficient in some activity, and meeting peers who have similar interests and who are respectful would probably help.

But in the end, it is a matter of decision and determination.

 

[Beeza]

Go work on a roofing or any other construction crew for a summer. That will straighten you out. You'll come back with thick skin and likely tough as nails.

 

[Astronuc]

Go work on a roofing or any other construction crew for a summer. That will straighten you out. You'll come back with thick skin and likely tough as nails.

In my early years of college, I helped my father re-roof the house on the weekends and evenings in the summer. We'd do a section at time. I ended up doing most of the work during the day because the temperatures were often in the high 90's or low 100's, and it was easier for me to heft the bundles of shingles.

Then during summer break and on holidays, I did iron work in which I assembled metal buildings. The best jobs were over 120 feet. I had a blast working outdoors and up high.

Use sunscreen.

 

[Beeza]

In my early years of college, I helped my father re-roof the house on the weekends and evenings in the summer. We'd do a section at time. I ended up doing most of the work during the day because the temperatures were often in the high 90's or low 100's, and it was easier for me to heft the bundles of shingles.

Then during summer break and on holidays, I did iron work in which I assembled metal buildings. The best jobs were over 120 feet. I had a blast working outdoors and up high.

Use sunscreen.

It's definitely fun to do! But, I only realized this when I became a "weekend warrior" and stopped working full time in exchange for college. Working outside is both a curse (winters in the Northeast) and blessing (late summer and early fall).

 

[.ultimate]

Introvert - Unsuccessful person

 

[chaoseverlasting]

just last semester I had to deal with this jerk who seemed like his goal in life was to try to put me down. The semester before (last spring) is when the conflict started with this guy. I was in a good mood, laughed a lot in class, and spoke up in class discussions alot. I was trying to be nice to this jerk, but all he did was insult me. I figured the problem was that I was being too goofy and looked stupid, so I decided to get more serious over the summer. Then I met him again last fall, took his insults really seriously, and now I trying to get happy again.

I guess the best way to deal with jerks is to practice assertiveness and forgive them, right?

Youre thinking too much. When someone's standing you up, its much more comforting to act than to think about the moral high ground or what's "the right thing to do".

You should have shown him the finger and told him to stick it up where it belongs. I bet you the whole class would have taken his trip.

When someone's trying to be the center of attention that way, trying to act like he's where its at, all you have to do is make him look like a fool once, and every other time, everyone else will take care of it for you. You just have to speak up.

People know when someone's acting like they've got their head stuck up where the sun don't shine, and when they see someone stand up for themselves, they respect it. Try it out. Its better than thinking about the right course of action.

 

[proton]

"Put up a sport or some type of activity. "
So I guess biking at the beach every day would be helpful? Or joining the chess club even though the semester is half-way over?

"If you can, talk to someone whom you're really close to. Share experiences and problems, and you'll become aware of the fact that you're not the only one with this type of problems. This should comfort you, too."
I have only a few friends, and they probably wouldn't want to hear about my problems with dealing with bullies. (My friends I'm closest to are friends with him since he leeches off their kindness). Plus, I don't see them anymore since I don't go to that college anymore

 

[Cyrus]

You are wayyy to soft man. Join a gym.


"Plus, I don't see them anymore since I don't go to that college anymore"

So why do you care then? Do you really think they are spending their free time thinking about you the way you're thinking about them? Hah, yea right. They probably forgot your name already.

 

[radou]

So I guess biking at the beach every day would be helpful? Or joining the chess club even though the semester is half-way over?

Yes, it would be helpful, if you enjoy doing it. Plus, there's always a chance you'll meet someone there.

I have only a few friends, and they probably wouldn't want to hear about my problems with dealing with bullies. (My friends I'm closest to are friends with him since he leeches off their kindness). Plus, I don't see them anymore since I don't go to that college anymore

Then they aren't friends.

So make new friends. How? Well, the biking+beach thing could be a start. Don't think too much, rather act.

 

[AKG]

You are wayyy to soft man. Join a gym.

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. If you're trying to give a guy tips on building confidence, what good does it to do to put him down and tell him he's "wayyy to soft"? If you've got advice to give, give it and then if you've got nothing else good to say, don't say anything.

proton, I just want to second some of the advice others have given:

Exercise (running, weight training, some sport (individual or team)), eating right, developing a skill or becoming proficient in some activity, and meeting peers who have similar interests and who are respectful would probably help.

Sports and weight training are good for many reasons. One big thing about them is obviously your health. Also, as you become stronger and more athletic, you become more confident about your body, which helps in your overall confidence. Sports are also a great way to have fun and feel energetic, which also helps your confidence. If day in and day out, you're always doing sedentary or passive things, then when you're with people, you kind of stay passive, whereas if you're active a lot, it's easy to be active and engaging with people. Also, if you get into sports, then when you do meet people, right away you've got something to talk about: the sports you play!

As for becoming good at some activity, that's also good advice. If you like chess, go for it. It also helps to try out totally different things, things you don't know if you'll like or not. It'll help break your routine, it'll force your mind to be more active because it's dealing with something totally new, it'll of course give you a chance to meet new people, it'll make you a more well-rounded person, and if you find that you can become good at whatever you try, it's a great boost to your self-esteem.

People in this thread have also given some good advice about talking to people. I know someone mentioned something like talking to the cashier at the store when you go to buy things. Definitely do that type of thing. You might feel awkward at first, and worry what the other person is thinking of you, but just take the risk and do it. Eventually, striking up casual conversations with random strangers will come naturally. Of course, don't ignore the people you know, start up conversations with class-mates, etc.

 

[Cyrus]

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. If you're trying to give a guy tips on building confidence, what good does it to do to put him down and tell him he's "wayyy to soft"? If you've got advice to give, give it and then if you've got nothing else good to say, don't say anything.

When he joins a gym, he is going to interact with people. Some of those people might be big and intimidating. But when he talks to them he's going to realize that they are just as nice as anyone else. Also, he will get some exercise and be healthy.

I said he's way too soft, because it appears that he is. He let's people walk all over him infront of everyone else. I am being straight with the guy.

 

[BillJx]

A sport might be a good idea, especially one that 1) has the potential for life-long involvement if you take to it 2) develops your confidence without pushing you too far beyond your comfort zone 3) connects you with people you relate to, rather than to aggressive jocks.

Judo comes to mind. It's not a loner sport like distance running, but not a group sport like softball. It's hands-on, interactive, and you progress at your own pace. And it's fun. I'm not telling you to join a Judo club necessarily! Just offering it as an illustrative idea.

Ignore the ignorant "introvert - unsuccessful person" remark . It's typical of a certain type of extrovert who lacks insight into other people. I think introversion / extroversion are believed to be related to the way we process information. Appreciate who you are, both types have their strengths and their rewards.

In any case, introversion is different from shyness, although introverts naturally get less interpersonal practice than extroverts. As your social skills grow you'll find that you can operate in both styles, but if you're a true introvert you'll always have a part of yourself that's difficult to share, and that extroverts seem to lack.

 

[JasonRox]

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. If you're trying to give a guy tips on building confidence, what good does it to do to put him down and tell him he's "wayyy to soft"?

Believe it or not. Working out does help build confidence, so it's good advice.

 

[Astronuc]

Gentlemen, I believe AKG was responding to the comment "wayyy to soft".

Certainly exercise is very helpful in many ways, and I don't think AKG disputed that point.

 

[proton]

"Judo comes to mind. It's not a loner sport like distance running, but not a group sport like softball. It's hands-on, interactive, and you progress at your own pace. And it's fun. I'm not telling you to join a Judo club necessarily! Just offering it as an illustrative idea."
I just checked that my community center offers a karate class. I'll probably sign up for that class.