Simple divergence theorem questions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the divergence theorem, focusing on its proof in the context of a rectangular model and the implications of dot products in integrals. Participants explore the mathematical nuances and conceptual understanding of the theorem, including its application to various surfaces and vector fields.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses understanding of the divergence theorem but questions the treatment of the dot product in the area integral, specifically regarding the absence of the cosine factor.
  • Another participant clarifies that the dot product results in the first component of the vector field, suggesting that using ##F_x## instead of ##F_1## might enhance clarity.
  • Concerns are raised about the sign of the integral after removing the dot product, indicating confusion over the implications of directionality in the area element.
  • A question is posed about whether the divergence theorem is limited to surfaces with net flux.
  • A response asserts that the divergence theorem applies to any closed volume with a differentiable vector field, regardless of the net flux being zero, inwards, or outwards.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of the divergence theorem to closed volumes, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the treatment of the dot product and its implications in specific integrals.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the mathematical treatment of integrals and the implications of vector field components, but some assumptions and definitions remain implicit and unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in advanced calculus, vector calculus, and the mathematical foundations of the divergence theorem may find this discussion relevant.

bmrick
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So I understand the divergence theorem for the most part. This is the proof that I'm working with http://www.math.ncku.edu.tw/~rchen/Advanced Calculus/divergence theorem.pdf

For right now I'm just looking at the rectangular model. My understanding is that should we find a proof for this model we can validate all transformations of the models from a proof regarding the integral values of transformed regions. (there's also probably an easier method where we just don't assume the object to be square too, right?)

What bothers me is that the area integral of F(x,y,z) dot d(a) is equal to the double integral of F(x,y,z)dydz. What happened to the cos@ value that existed when we were dotting across the area?

the other thing that is bothering me is that when we get rid of this dot product, one the integrals becomes negative. What gives?
 
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In the proof the dot product gives you simply the first component of F, which is why you see ##F_1## instead of just ##F## in that integral after the dot product has been taken. Perhaps it would have been more clear if they had used ##F_x## instead of ##F_1##. Of course ##F_1 = F\cos(\theta)## where ##\theta## is the angle between ##\vec{F}## and ##\hat{x}##. Of course this is so since ##F_1## is simply the projection of ##\vec{F}## onto the x-axis.

For the other side (opposite face), the area element is pointing in the negative x-direction, so you get the negative of the first component of ##F## in that integral when you take the dot product.
 
Ahhhhh i see. Thank you very much. You are both a scholar and a gentleman
 
Haha, no problem. :)
 
Dies the divergence theorem only apply to surfaces that have a net flux?
 
No, the divergence theorem applies to any closed volume on which a (differentiable/smooth) vector field is defined, whether the flux is net in, net out, or 0. In fact, in physics, the divergence theorem is often used for when the net flux is 0, e.g. in Gauss's law to show that there is no net charge enclosed in a given volume.
 

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