Simple harmonic motion function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the representation of simple harmonic motion (SHM) functions in problems, specifically how to identify whether a given function describes position, velocity, or acceleration. Participants explore the implications of different mathematical representations and the terminology used in SHM contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that variable names in functions can indicate their meaning, such as "x" for position and "v" for velocity.
  • Others argue that the use of dots in equations typically denotes time derivatives, which can help clarify the function's nature.
  • A participant notes that the form of the function, such as y(t)=Asin(wt+d), is indicative of position, while v(t)=Bsin(ut+e) would suggest a velocity function.
  • There is a discussion about the interchangeable use of sine and cosine in representing position and velocity functions, with some participants asserting that both forms can be valid depending on the context.
  • One participant emphasizes that the starting point of timing can affect the function representation, leading to variations in the equations used.
  • Another participant states that differentiating the position function will yield the speed, suggesting a method to find velocity from the position function.
  • It is mentioned that questions typically provide the position function, but clarity can depend on the context and specific wording of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of functions in SHM, with no consensus on a definitive method for identifying position, velocity, or acceleration based solely on the function form. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to clarify these distinctions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential ambiguity in function representation without explicit context or definitions, as well as the dependence on the specific wording of problems in textbooks.

oneplusone
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Hello,
When doing problems with SHM, my textbook says something like:

An object in vertical shm is described by <insert some function>. Find the speed after X seconds.


my question is, how do you know if the function is referring to the position of the object, or the velocity, or accelerration?
What are some key words to look for?

Thanks.
 
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oneplusone said:
Hello,
When doing problems with SHM, my textbook says something like:
"something like" is not usually helpful - how are we to tell between your interpretation of what it is like and what it says?

An object in vertical shm is described by <insert some function>. Find the speed after X seconds.

my question is, how do you know if the function is referring to the position of the object, or the velocity, or accelerration?
What are some key words to look for?
The function itself will use variable names that are suggestive of what it is in terms of ... i.e. an "x" would be positions and a "v" would be velocity.
They may use dots to refer to time derivatives in the normal way.

An equation may be in terms of several ... eg, the acceleration for a mass-on-spring typically depends on position as ma=-kx, where m and k are constants.

What you are seeing is probably the result: y(t)=Asin(wt+d) or some variation right?
So this is a position equation... A w and d are constants for the system.

v(t)=Bsin(ut+e) would be a velocity equation, B u and e are constants.
If it is the same system, the constants will be related to each other.
 
Hello,

so does this mean that sin will always be velocity?
 
No, one can use either sine or cosine for the position function, which gives correspondingly cosine or sine for the velocity (and negative sine or negative cosine for the acceleration). Some books do it one way, some books do it the other way.
 
For a mass on a spring:
x(t)=Asin(wt) would be the case where you started your stopwatch (t=0) when the mass passed through it's equilibrium position and headed in the +x direction and v(t)=wAcos(wt)=wAsin(wt+π/2)

But it's your stopwatch: you can start it whenever you like.

If you had waited to start your stopwatch when it was going through the equilibium position the other way, then it would be x(t)=-Asin(wt)

If you started the stopwatch from when the mass has it's maximum displacement in the +x direction, then it would be x(t)=Acos(wt).

But if you just started at any old place it would be:
x(t)=Asin(wt+a)=Acos(xt+b) ... either sine or cosine could be used but b and a will be different.
Can you see what the difference |a-b| has to be?

Without the x(t)= part at the start, there would be no way to tell if the Asin(wt) refers to displacement rather than acceleration or velocity.
 
its giving you the position with time, as simple as that!, to find the speed, just differentiate the function and plug in the value of time
 
Yep, a question worded like that almost always gives the position (or displacement) as a function of time.
When it doesn;t, the nature of the function should be clear from the rest of the text, the variables used, and/or by applying your knowledge of SHM ;)
 

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