Simple NAND flip flop question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the functioning of NAND flip flops, particularly in the context of memory storage, including the transition from volatile to non-volatile memory systems like flash memory. Participants explore the mechanisms that allow data to be retained without power, addressing common confusions regarding the operation of NAND flip flops in memory applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how NAND flip flops can retain their state (S and R inputs) when power is removed, expressing confusion about the implications for flash memory.
  • Another participant clarifies that simple flip flops are volatile and lose their contents when power is cycled, contrasting this with non-volatile memory mechanisms like the floating gate technique used in flash memory.
  • A participant acknowledges the clarification and expresses gratitude, indicating prior familiarity with the topic but still having confusion.
  • Another participant expresses curiosity about the ingenuity behind the floating gate FET idea, suggesting admiration for the concept.
  • A later contribution discusses advancements in non-volatile transistor configurations and their implications for chip manufacturing, highlighting ongoing innovations in the field.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the distinction between volatile and non-volatile memory, but there remains some confusion regarding the specific mechanisms of NAND flip flops in memory applications. The discussion reflects a mix of clarifications and expressions of curiosity without reaching a consensus on all points.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the operation of NAND flip flops in the absence of power, indicating a need for further exploration of the underlying principles of memory storage technologies.

lampshade
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something has always bothered me about nand flip flops and their use in memory so I thought I would ask this here and get it cleared up.

In a basic nand flip flop like the one found here:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/nandlatch.html#c1"
I understand that there is a stable state Q=1 and Q' = 0, but what I don't get is how this helps in flash memory.

Once I say pull a usb flash drive out of the computer, it has no more electricity so how can S or R remain 1? In my mind I see the lack of electricity as being a 0 S input and a 0 R input that would put the latch into its invalid state.

What is the tiny key thing that I am missing to make sense of this?? This has been bugging me all day

Big thanks in advance,
lampshade
 
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A simple flip flop (as is used in RAM cells, etc.) is volatile -- the contents are lost when power is cycled.

Non-volatile memory like flash and EEPROM has other mechanisms for storing charge that stays stored even when the power is turned off. One technique is a "floating gate" technique, where charge is tunneled into a floating, isolated gate, where it stays for many years without leaking out. The presence or absence of the charge on the floating gate affects the transistor characteristics of the associated cell, and can be read out (without affecting the stored charge) in order to tell whether that cell contains a logic 1 or 0.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory
 
Thanks a ton for the clarification. I had actually already read the wiki page in the process but I was still a little confused.

Thanks again!
 
I've always wondered this too. Thanks for the info. I wonder how the inventer dreamed that up. The floating gate FET idea seems quite ingenious.
 
Yeah, I agree -- a great invention. And another extension on that, are the zero-mask-adder non-volatile transistor configurations that are getting qualified for viable IP at different geometries right now. That means that various aggressive startup companies are doing their best to prove that they can supply (for a reasonable fee) IP (intellectual property licenses) that enable us chip companies to make chips with non-volatile memory arrays that do not require the extra IC fab layers (and associated cost). Great stuff on the cusp of technology in the Valley (and elsewhere obviously)!
 

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