Skeletons are immune to physical pleasure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical implications of the cursed skeletons in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" film, particularly regarding the notion of physical pleasure and how experiences may desensitize individuals. Participants explore themes of identity, pleasure, and societal behaviors among college students, with a focus on the impact of drinking and casual relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the skeletons represent a philosophical predicament of being unable to feel pain or pleasure, which resonates with their experiences in college.
  • Others argue that engaging in activities like drinking does not equate to being immune to physical pleasure, as many derive enjoyment from these experiences.
  • A participant questions the correlation between college experiences and becoming like the skeletons, asserting that personal enjoyment varies widely.
  • One participant posits that experiences inherently desensitize individuals, leading to a "skeleton-factor" that cannot decrease over time.
  • Another counters that experience can enhance awareness and appreciation of pleasure rather than diminish it.
  • There are references to the film's appeal beyond its philosophical themes, including the popularity of Johnny Depp and the comedic elements.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the validity of broad claims regarding people's experiences and feelings, emphasizing the subjective nature of enjoyment.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the relationship between experiences, pleasure, and the metaphor of the skeletons. Disagreements arise over the implications of personal experiences and the interpretation of the film's themes.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying definitions of pleasure, the subjective nature of personal experiences, and the lack of empirical evidence to support claims about desensitization or enjoyment.

Crosson
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It occurred to me that part of the success of the original pirates of the caribbean film may be due to the philosophically interesting predicament of the main antagonists, viz. they are cursed pirates who cannot feel pain or pleasure, and in fact the moonlight reveals them to be merely animated skeletons.

A lot of college students in my age group (21) are so jaded that I suspect they identify with P.o.t.C.-Skeletons i.e. they have done so much college drinking and casual sex that they are essentially immune to physical pleasure. Or am I the only one for which the P.o.t.C.-Skeletons struck a philosophical cord?
 
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I think a lot of them start turning into POTC skeletons at fourteen.
 
Just because some people go and get drunk doesn't mean that they arent capable of "physical pleasure". in fact I'm sure most of them gain "physical pleasure" from their activities or else they would probably not do it.
 
Crosson said:
It occurred to me that part of the success of the original pirates of the caribbean film may be due to the philosophically interesting predicament of the main antagonists,...
Perhaps antagonism is gaining in popularity?
 
||spoon|| said:
Just because some people go and get drunk doesn't mean that they arent capable of "physical pleasure". in fact I'm sure most of them gain "physical pleasure" from their activities or else they would probably not do it.

I was going to say exactly the same thing.
 
Rubbish.

Booze is brilliant.
 
does anyone remember the fate of drugs thread?
 
And what's wrong with casual sex when you're young?
 
Crosson said:
It occurred to me that part of the success of the original pirates of the caribbean film may be due to the philosophically interesting predicament of the main antagonists

And here was me foolishly thinking that all the girls just fancied mr Johnny Depp the pirate, and most of the men were dragged along as a result (I may be slighty jaded by personal experience however...) Its an appealing film, with plenty of action and a 'cool' hero character and lots of impressive special effects (and of course, something for both sexes to gawk at...) I wouldn't try to read too much into it.
 
  • #10
matthyaouw said:
And here was me foolishly thinking that all the girls just fancied mr Johnny Depp the pirate, and most of the men were dragged along as a result (I may be slighty jaded by personal experience however...) Its an appealing film, with plenty of action and a 'cool' hero character and lots of impressive special effects (and of course, something for both sexes to gawk at...) I wouldn't try to read too much into it.

I agree, it's not like it's profoundly deep like The Matrix or something:wink: :smile:

Hmmm...thinking about it? Maybe you should give your friends a choice, blue pill or red pill? One representing the falsity of there conformistly banal, free lifestyle the other offering a revelation about the true meaning of university?:-p
 
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  • #11
The men fancied Mr. Depp, too. They just don't want to admit it.
 
  • #12
Coming from a university that has the oft quoted and funny little acronym "University of Casual Sex and Beer" (UCSB), I coudn't disagree more. People have different ways to enjoy themself, I don't understand how this lends itself to them being "essentially immune to physical pleasure."
 
  • #13
Oh and its friday, why am I still posting here? Time to go out and dull the ol' pleasure receptors! :biggrin:
 
  • #14
I didn't say that beers or casual sex => skeleton, but I did cite a correlation.

Anyone who can't admit that they are closer to being a PotC-Skeleton then they were when they were 12 is having trouble facing the truth. This is no big deal, maybe its good and cool, I am not making a value judgement. The question is whether the cursed skeletons made the plot more memorable and enjoyable?
 
  • #15
Crosson said:
Anyone who can't admit that they are closer to being a PotC-Skeleton then they were when they were 12 is having trouble facing the truth.

On what do you base this? If you think you're wise enough to make wide all-encompassing statements about people you have never met, you're having trouble facing reality.
 
  • #16
On what do you base this? If you think you're wise enough to make wide all-encompassing statements about people you have never met, you're having trouble facing reality.

It simple really, everyones skeleton-factor is monotonically non-decreasing. There is no way to become less of a skeleton, once you have had experiences you can't take them away, and experience is what desensitizes our bodies and minds.

Do you cite a counterexample? As this is just a discussion, I would rather hear that then a silly personal attack
 
  • #17
Crosson said:
I didn't say that beers or casual sex => skeleton, but I did cite a correlation.
No, you stated your personal opinion. You cited nothing as the basis of that claim.

Anyone who can't admit that they are closer to being a PotC-Skeleton then they were when they were 12 is having trouble facing the truth.

You are aware that PotC is FICTION, right? Again, this seems to be your opinion, but clearly others disagree with your opinion. People enjoy it for several reasons, none of which has anything to do with your skeletons in the closet view.
1) They've been to Disney and enjoyed the Pirates of the Carribean ride, so also enjoyed the humor of seeing some of those scenes played out in the movie. (It's uncommon to have a theme park ride turned into a movie...usually things happen in the opposite order.)
2) They like Johnny Depp...he's a great actor.
3) It was funny! The movie is meant to be an over-the-top comedy, and that's what people enjoyed.
4) It had pirates...pirates are always fun.

You're definitely reading way too much into it. Nobody is having trouble facing reality if they don't think they are turning into a fictional movie character. Someone who DOES think they are turning into something fictional is more likely having a bit of difficulty remaining fully attached to reality.

Crosson said:
It simple really, everyones skeleton-factor is monotonically non-decreasing. There is no way to become less of a skeleton, once you have had experiences you can't take them away, and experience is what desensitizes our bodies and minds.
What? Why would experience desensitize anyone to anything? Why not the opposite, that experience makes one more aware of the world, thus more able to fully enjoy it? You're arguing gibberish.
 
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  • #18
Crosson said:
It simple really, everyones skeleton-factor is monotonically non-decreasing. There is no way to become less of a skeleton, once you have had experiences you can't take them away, and experience is what desensitizes our bodies and minds.

Yet again with the broad statements, and assumptions that you have a good understanding of people you know nothing about.

Do you cite a counterexample?
Myself. I find that with age, I am capable of appreciating a wider range of experiences and of appreciating them on a deeper level than when I was younger.
 
  • #19
I've suffered a weight increase lately. Doesn't that make my skeleton-factor less??
 
  • #20
Hmm, it looks like we better close the entire forum since it consists only of opinions:rolleyes: . I am going to take this opportunity to tell you, that the tactic of pointing our that "its just an opinion" and "you didn't cite sources/ I don't agree with your sources" are fallacies, they do not add anything to the discussion and in many cases are the end of it.

Now I will deal with the intelligent replies:

I've suffered a weight increase lately. Doesn't that make my skeleton-factor less??

Well, in the metaphorical sense that we might tease a skinny friend by calling them a skeleton, yes your appearance after gaining weight is a less skeletal one. In the sense of the cursed PotC-Skeletons, the way I see it is that you are less satisfied by smaller amounts of food, it takes larger amounts to satisfy because you sense of enjoying-food is somewhat less per bite, you need more overall bites to make up for the desensitization. So your PotC-Skeleton factor has increased.

Myself. I find that with age, I am capable of appreciating a wider range of experiences and of appreciating them on a deeper level than when I was younger.

I agree, but the effect is mental, viz. we have increased awareness and increased experience. With food we savor each bite more slowly, and carefully detect individual flavors. But why do children enjoy hot dogs? Because everything taste good to them, they have less skeleton-factor.

You are aware that PotC is FICTION, right?

No, I am so dumb that I am not aware that PotC is fiction.

Again, this seems to be your opinion, but clearly others disagree with your opinion. People enjoy it for several reasons, none of which has anything to do with your skeletons in the closet view.

Showing your true mental age, you bore me by pointing out that everything is an opinion, then state one of yours as if to refute me so finally that my view is so unworthy of consideration that we all may as well confuse it with the phrase "skeletons in the closet".

No content!

1) They've been to Disney and enjoyed the Pirates of the Carribean ride, so also enjoyed the humor of seeing some of those scenes played out in the movie. (It's uncommon to have a theme park ride turned into a movie...usually things happen in the opposite order.)
2) They like Johnny Depp...he's a great actor.
3) It was funny! The movie is meant to be an over-the-top comedy, and that's what people enjoyed.
4) It had pirates...pirates are always fun.

Yes, we all agree that these are reasons for the success of PotC. Are there more reasons? Undoubtedly. Is my topic one of them? I still don't know.


You're definitely reading way too much into it. Nobody is having trouble facing reality if they don't think they are turning into a fictional movie character. Someone who DOES think they are turning into something fictional is more likely having a bit of difficulty remaining fully attached to reality.

Did you misunderstand that badly, or is that the best straw man you could construct? I never said that we are cursed, or that we are becoming cursed, or that anyone could ever be cursed like the skeleys were. I used "Skeleton-factor" to mean the extent to which our sense of physical sensation is like that of the PotC-Skeletons, i.e. :

1. Food turns to ash in their mouth.

2. Sex is our of the question, aside from the urge to be lewd.

3. Alcohol has no physiological effect, but they still do it for social reasons.

...etc

Can anyone see the parallels between these cursed-skeleton issues and the issues that are be faced by many people in the primary (late teens/ early twenties) demographic that enjoyed the film?