Is the Financial Payoff of Becoming a Doctor Comparable to Other Professions?

[Borek]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-09/study-hard-to-find-if-harvard-pays-off-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html

Jill worked hard to become a GP, Joe decided to become a plumber. Kotlikoff calculates their average income:

Jill, the doctor, has the highest living standard. She gets to spend $33,666 year

To add insult to Jill’s injury, Joe the plumber’s sustainable spending is almost as high -- $33,243. All those grueling years of study, exams, late-night emergency calls, and Jill gets to spend a measly $423 more per year than a plumber.

 

[kr73114]

money isn't the reason you should study

 

[Pengwuino]

money isn't the reason you should study

This is a cop out. Few important jobs exist where a financial reward isn't a necessity in exchange for the things a person would have to do to make it in the field. You can't work 80 hours a week powered by idealism for long.

Money is an important factor to consider. You may get screwed studying for a decade and working 80 hour weeks, but you need to combine the probable greater job satisfaction with a higher salary to make it worth it.

On the other hand, Joe the plumber needs to combine the fact that he may end up making as much as a doctor (total, not annually), but can he be satisfied as a plumber? And that's not a rhetorical question, I know electricians who absolutely LOVE their job.

@Borek

This is just another article on the mountains of articles and research that have been coming to light the past few years about what the promise of higher education really means in this country. I wonder if anyones taking notice.

 

[turbo]

Expendable income isn't the only measure of success in one's life. I have friends who are doctors, and to retain their privileges at local hospitals, they have to provide weekend coverage and/or evening on-call status to those hospitals. That puts a crimp in your life, and can keep you juggling and swapping coverages with other doctors so you can attend weddings, ballet recitals, ball games, etc, for the sake of your family. Still, their work-environment isn't physically demanding, and they can continue to stay active in their profession until they want to retire.

Being a plumber is a bit more demanding in some respects. A plumber doesn't have a steady stream of patients coming in for check-ups, and has to build a reputation to keep his business steady. Also, he has to work in demanding conditions, at times, and has to stay relatively healthy to keep taking tougher jobs. My uncle is an HVAC specialist and a few years back, an uninsured young lady slammed into his van with her BF's truck, smashing his foot and breaking his leg in several places. That put him out of work for many months while he endured multiple surgeries. Not good. He would like to retire, but that set-back means that he will have to keep working for a few years more, at least.

 

[JaredJames]

What about job security?

A GP should be able to find work anywhere. Heck, the UK would snap them up and pay them well. A plumber on the other hand isn't necessarily secure. There's no guarantee of work, especially if someone steals all of your business.

 

[daveb]

The study also doesn't seem to take into account (though it might, there's no evidence either way) using an inexpensive public university as opposed to a private one, working while earning that master's degree, union dues for the plumber or teacher, the different levels of plumber careers (apprenticechip, journeyman, etc.), scholarships rather than student loans for college, being a self-employed plumber or doctor, etc.

 

[turbo]

I should add here that two of my doctor friends are about my age, and they are not as close to their children as lots of other fathers. Yes, the kids have been living comfortably, and can expect help (if not a completely free ride) attending college and getting started after school. That doesn't mean that the kids had healthy relationships with their fathers or are close to them as they could be.

Also, the two GPs that I'm closest to love to hike, climb, paddle, etc, but seem to treat those pastimes as "treats" time for themselves to be indulged sparingly, and it's hard to get them to loosen up and just get together casually on short notice. When you decide to be a doctor in Maine because of the woods, ponds, rivers, mountains, etc, it's not a real smart idea to wed yourself to a profession that steals most of your time.

If you want to relax at Baxter State Park, fish a little and climb Katahdin during your visit, you'd better budget a whole weekend, including camping near there Friday night for an early start Saturday morning. None of my doctor friends have managed to pull that together. In past years, lots of my friends have planned their time off and made such trips. The last time I climbed Katahdin, our group included the town's chief of police, a store manager, a pharmacist, etc, and wives and a few teen kids. We had a fantastic time. The younger daughter of my cousin (wife of store manager) spent the weekend with the daughter of a doctor - a friend of both our families who "couldn't get away", though he loves hiking. I'd rather be a plumber.

 

[Pythagorean]

disagree with pengwuino (he must be an engineer?)

Also, if you equally disagree with pengwuino, then you'd be miserable plumbing. The only fun labor job I've ever had was commercial fishing and that's only because it was life-threatening, which adds a little more fun to the job

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

It's tough for me to say. I have a Master's in Mathematics, but I never worked as a Mathematician. I got a job in Software Engineering in the early 80's. At that time, you could get hired anywhere just by saying you were a computer programmer. If you really were one, then good, but if you couldn't do the work, they would teach you how. Times have changed. I think that my education has made it easier for me to do my work even though the field is different.

 

[xxChrisxx]

There's one thing I've come to realize. Time is far more precious than money. I never appreciated time when I had it, now I'm paid well but have no time, I'm miserable. (EDIT miserable is a bit strong maybe, but decidedly unhappy with life)

 

[tedbradly]

The sort of thing seems aimed at the masses instead of aimed at the most benefited students. For example, I am paid $20k/year in scholarships to attend a local university. At the end of the year, after buying all school supplies, paying a paltry tuition, and paying for living expenses, I walk away with $10k in the bank.

So yeah, school does pay for me.

 

[JaredJames]

The sort of thing seems aimed at the masses instead of aimed at the most benefited students. For example, I am paid $20k/year in scholarships to attend a local university. At the end of the year, after buying all school supplies, paying a paltry tuition, and paying for living expenses, I walk away with $10k in the bank.

So yeah, school does pay for me.

And if that had been the topic of the OP, I'm sure it would be important!

 

[tedbradly]

And if that had been the topic of the OP, I'm sure it would be important!

What are you proposing his topic and mine are?

 

[turbo]

There's one thing I've come to realize. Time is far more precious than money. I never appreciated time when I had it, now I'm paid well but have no time, I'm miserable. (EDIT miserable is a bit song maybe, but decidedly unhappy with life)

I made more money than my MD friends for many years, but I did it at a great cost - lots of traveling, week or two/month away from home. Eventually, I got a local job that paid much, much better and let me sleep in my own bed every night. It's not the kind of job you can look for, nor did I want to accept it initially because I was very sick of sales/customer service. I was given an ultimatum by the boss and his GM - "Take this opening temporarily or you're down the road, because we'll eliminate your current position." After a year of record earnings, they broke their promise to find a permanent replacement, and my "temporary" job became permanent.

 

[JaredJames]

What are you proposing his topic and mine are?

Unless I misread, the OP is discussing the earning potential for someone who studies in university vs someone who doesn't. Plumber vs GP.

The point made was that the plumber had almost the same cash available (only $400 less).

Your post had nothing to do with post-university job earnings.

 

[tedbradly]

Unless I misread, the OP is discussing the earning potential for someone who studies in university vs someone who doesn't. Plumber vs GP.

The point made was that the plumber had almost the same cash available (only $400 less).

Your post had nothing to do with post-university job earnings.

The article presupposes average (and ridiculous) educational debt in its analysis.

 

[Pengwuino]

The study also doesn't seem to take into account (though it might, there's no evidence either way) using an inexpensive public university as opposed to a private one, working while earning that master's degree, union dues for the plumber or teacher, the different levels of plumber careers (apprenticechip, journeyman, etc.), scholarships rather than student loans for college, being a self-employed plumber or doctor, etc.

I think the big point is that the doctor went the route people assume is worth taking: expensive private university, $100ks of student loans, and years and years of study. That's what I feel this argument is making a point of, even though I don't think it didnt do a good job of making the point of putting down numbers for the student loans to emphasize it. I'm sure everyone would agree going to an inexpensive university to become a doctor would be totally worth it.

 

[Astronuc]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-09/study-hard-to-find-if-harvard-pays-off-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html

Jill worked hard to become a GP, Joe decided to become a plumber. Kotlikoff calculates their average income:

Jill needs to see a tax specialist or financial planner who can get her tax rate down to 28% or less, and her adjusted income down.