So, is light truly relative, or is its speed constant regardless of movement?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of light and its speed, particularly in relation to the movement of galaxies and the expansion of the universe. Participants explore whether light's speed is constant or relative, and how this interacts with the motion of Earth and other celestial bodies.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that light is not relative, suggesting that galaxies appear to move away from us at speeds exceeding that of light due to the expansion of the universe.
  • Others propose that light always moves at the speed of light (c) locally, regardless of the motion of the observer or the source.
  • There is a suggestion that light on Earth could be red-shifted in certain directions due to the relative motion of Earth and the galaxy.
  • One participant mentions that red and blue shifting occurs because spacetime is expanding, which stretches light waves, but this effect is negligible when observing light from Earth.
  • Some participants clarify that while the universe is expanding, the Earth itself does not expand, leading to no red shifting between locations on Earth.
  • A question is raised about whether light speed is relative to Earth and how this relates to adjustments made in GPS systems due to Earth's motion.
  • Another participant asserts that light moves at the same speed relative to everyone, regardless of the expansion of the universe or the motion of Earth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether light's speed is relative or constant, with some asserting it is always c locally while others discuss the implications of cosmic expansion. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the effects of spacetime expansion and the implications for red and blue shifting, but there are unresolved assumptions about how these concepts interact with local observations and measurements.

seb7
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ok, light isn't relative, or is it?

Its said that galaxy far across the universe appear to be moving away from us at beyond light speed; as since the universe is expanding all around us.

So, does that mean light within these distant galaxies moves around relative to within its own local space/time?

Also, since our system is traveling around our galaxy at 30km/s, and our galaxy is apparently moving through space at 600km/s, wouldn't light on Earth be slightly red shifted in certain directions?
 
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seb7 said:
ok, light isn't relative, or is it?

Its said that galaxy far across the universe appear to be moving away from us at beyond light speed; as since the universe is expanding all around us.

So, does that mean light within these distant galaxies moves around relative to within its own local space/time?
If I understand correctly, the answer is 'yes'. Light always moves at c Km/s at the place it is - i.e. locally.

Also, since our system is traveling around our galaxy at 30km/s, and our galaxy is apparently moving through space at 600km/s, wouldn't light on Earth be slightly red shifted in certain directions?
Light from Earth, viewed from elsewhere could be red or blue shifted, depending on the relative motions. Also, light arriving at Earth could be frequency shifted.
 
seb7 said:
So, does that mean light within these distant galaxies moves around relative to within its own local space/time?

As Mentz114 said, the speed of light locally is always c.

seb7 said:
wouldnt light on Earth be slightly red shifted in certain directions?

Yes. This has been observed:

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CMB-DT.html
 
I also think that the red shifting and blue shifting occurs because spacetime itself is expanding. c is always the same, but when spacetime "stretches", the lightwave stretches, which is what causes the red/blue shift.

If I understand correctly, you wouldn't notice this if viewing something on Earth while also standing on Earth as the "stretching" wouldn't be big enough to cause any noticeable effect.
 
No, the Earth isn't expanding eventhough the Universe is.
 
dauto said:
No, the Earth isn't expanding eventhough the Universe is.

Got it. Matter doesn't expand, but the space-time fabric of the Universe in which matter "sits" does, so no red shifting between two locations on Earth.
 
Is light speed relative to our earth? if not, and since the Earth is moving, that would mean it would appear that light on Earth travels faster in one direction compared to another.

I know GPS times have to be slightly adjusted as to account for time/speed difference, but are they also offset to allow for the moving of Earth through space?

I suppose what I'm asking, what space time fabric is light relative to?
 
Light moves at the same speed, relative to everyone. It does not travel faster in one direction than the other, regardless of the movement of Earth or anything else.

Light in a galaxy far across the universe travels at the same speed there, as it does when it reaches us.

The distance between that galaxy and Earth might increase at a rate that is faster than light, but that is because the Universe is expanding.

The speed of light does not change. It always travels at c relative to everyone everywhere.
 

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