So tension is not a force....?

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    Force Tension
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of tension in physics, particularly whether it should be classified as a force or a component of the stress tensor. Participants explore the relationship between tension, stress, and internal forces within a rope under tension, as well as the implications of these concepts in introductory physics contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that tension is not a force in the traditional sense, suggesting it can point in multiple directions at a point along a rope.
  • Others argue that tension can be viewed as a scalar quantity with dimensions of force, connecting it to the forces at the ends of a rope segment.
  • There is a discussion about whether tension is a component of the stress tensor, with some participants affirming this view while noting differences between tension and pressure.
  • One participant highlights the distinction between zero net force and zero force, emphasizing that internal stress exists even when net force is zero.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of differential equations relating tension and acceleration in a rope, particularly in the context of a hanging rope under gravity.
  • There is a mention of the need for a deeper understanding of tensors and their application in describing stress and forces within materials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of tension, with no consensus reached on whether it should be considered a force or a component of the stress tensor. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these definitions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of tension and stress, dependence on definitions of force and tensor concepts, and the potential for confusion between net force and internal forces.

  • #31
fog37 said:
Ok. All clear. Thanks again. Looking forward to your explanation about the stress tensor being symmetric (or not).
To be clear, the stress tensor is symmetric (meaning that the components of the dyadics with corresponding different indices are equal). So the way you represented it, it was not symmetric.

Throughout this discussion, the stress tensor was homogeneous but not symmetric. Is the stress tensor always symmetric in the case of fluids and can be symmetric or asymmetric in the case of solid materials?
For the vast majority of practical materials, the stress tensor is symmetric for both solids and liquids.
When the stress tensor is homogenous (not a function of position), it means that the internal stress is the same at every point in the material. What are a couple of simple examples of a material described by a homogeneous stress tensor and a couple of examples of a material whose stress tensor is instead inhomogeneous?
Homogeneous: A rod under tension with the load distributed uniformly at its ends. A fluid under hydrostatic pressure.
Inhomogeneous: A rod under tension with the load distributed non-uniformly at its ends. A beam being bent. Most objects encountered in practice.
For the stress tensor to be homogeneous, does the material need to have a constant density, be homogeneous and isotropic, and does the external force need to be uniformly applied to material?
Pretty much yes. When you solve some problems, you will get the idea.
 
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  • #32
A 2nd order tensor is said to be symmetric if it is equal to its "transpose." The transpose of a tensor is obtained by switching the order of the unit vectors in each of its dyadics.
 
  • #33
Thanks. I see my mistake in post #29: I assumed that being symmetric meant that the terms ##i_{x^{'}}i_{y^{'}}## and ##i_{y^{'}}i_{x^{'}}## were the same. Symmetry instead means that the components of these two dyadics are the same...
 
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