Solid angles and position vectors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of solid angles and their application in defining directions of objects moving from the center of a sphere. Participants explore the challenges of calculating angles between position vectors in three-dimensional space without resorting to traditional coordinate systems, drawing parallels to two-dimensional cases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes using solid angles to define directions for objects moving from the center of a sphere, comparing it to a similar approach in 2D with angles in a disk.
  • Another participant questions how direction can be specified without a coordinate system, prompting a discussion on the necessity of coordinates for defining position vectors.
  • A participant suggests that the spherical space can be divided into cones, with solid angles determining directions, but acknowledges the need for expressing distances between direction vectors.
  • There is a clarification that a solid angle is not a direction and that two dimensions are needed to specify a position vector on the unit sphere.
  • One participant explains their transition from a 2D framework to a 3D model, emphasizing the challenges of maintaining stochastic properties while avoiding polar coordinates.
  • Participants discuss the implications of using solid angles as a fraction of the total solid angle of the sphere and the potential for these angles to represent directions in a conceptual sense.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of coordinate systems for defining directions and the role of solid angles in this context. There is no consensus on how to proceed with the calculations without introducing polar coordinates.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of using solid angles alone to define directions, noting that the discussion may require additional mathematical frameworks or assumptions to resolve the challenges presented.

Mattew
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I've already posted this question in the math section, but since I got no reply I'll try it here (sorry for the cross-posting).
I'm using solid angles to define directions of objects moving from the centre of the sphere towards all points in the space around, which means I divides the (4pi) solid space around the centre in K-> infinity directions, each one defined by a solid angle w(i). It is a procedure commonly used in 2D, where each object departing from the centre of a disk chooses its direction in [0, 2pi]...the only difference appears to be the magnitude of the entire space, which is 4pi (solid angle of the sphere) in this case.
Now my problem is: If I have two position vectors defininig two of the objects movements in directions w1 and w2, how do I find the angle between them whithout introducing further coordinates (polar or x,y,z axis?). Is there a possibility to find the relative direction (each one defined by a soli angle) of the two vectors based on the only w parameter?
In 2D, calling teta1 and teta2 (in [0,2pi]) the directions of the two objects, i would graphically represent them on a x-y cartesian system and find the angle between them as teta2 - teta1, so the sum vector of the two would be sqrt[(v1cos(teta2-teta1))^2 + v2^2 sin(teta2 - teta1)^2 ], but I can't figure out how it works I am my 3D framework.
Can anybody give me some hints?
Thanks
 
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How are you specifying the direction of your position vectors without a coordinate system?
 
Well, that's mainly what I'm concerned about: if if you think about it geometrically, the spherical space around p (the origin of our coordinate system) is divided into cones with vertex in P, with the solid angle of the cone determining a direction, then passing to the limit (-> infinity) you should have enough infinitesimal solid angles to cover all the space around p, which means all the directions. Now we have objects departing from p and choosing a direction omega(i) according to a uniform distribution in [0,4pi].
That's only a theoric point of view but it should work, then the problem is how to express distances between direction vectors with origin in P and direction omega(i)...which probably leads us back to express the solid angles with the two polar coordinates...or not?
 
Mattew said:
Now we have objects departing from p and choosing a direction omega(i) according to a uniform distribution in [0,4pi].
A solid angle is not a direction. 4pi is just the total solid angle. I don't see how you can specify the position vector on the unit sphere with a single parameter--you need 2 dimensions. Why are you trying to avoid polar coordinates?
 
To explain you you why I'll start from beginning: I have a 2D framework representing a Boolean Model distributed class of sensors and a a moving target, in which sensors choose their directions following a uniform distribution in [0,2pi] and so the target does...this means that we can compute relative velocity of a sensor (moving towards the angle teta1) and the target (moving towards teta2) according to the angle teta2-teta1. Stochastic geometry is applied to state the hit time between the two, which leads to quite complicated computations. I'm now transporting this model in 3D, and the simplest way to do it (considering stochastic and infinite directions) was to consider, as I told, the sphere instead of the disk and the solid angle instead of the planar one.
Actually, ad you said solid angles are not directions, but if you think of dividing the spherical space around the origin p in many identic cones with vertex in p, then the space defined by each cone and the sphere is a solid angle omega, a fraction of the total 4pi of the sphere. Intuitively, as the cone gets smaller (or if you prefer considering the axis of the cones), that angle omega could be seen as a direction followed by a sensor moving from p, more or less as teta was the direction in the planar case. That's the idea, which has worked as far as I didn't have to consider relative positions of two objects (the first part of my work was just stochastic applied to the class of sensor for determining area coverage). Going back to polar coordinates would add a lot of stuff in computing relative velocity of the two objects and applying to it stochastic theorems that I'm already using in the planar case...
 

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