Solve Pedagogical Machine Homework

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on solving a physics problem involving a "pedagogical machine" with three masses (M1, M2, M3) and a pulley system. The key equation derived is F = M3g(M1 + M2)/M2, which calculates the force F required to keep M3 from rising or falling. The participants clarify the dynamics of the system, emphasizing the importance of accounting for all forces acting on M1 and the constraint that M3 must remain in contact with M1 for the equations to hold true. The resolution of the problem hinges on correctly applying Newton's laws and understanding the relationship between the accelerations of the masses.

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Homework Statement



A “pedagogical machine” is illustrated in the sketch (attached image). All surfaces are frictionless. What force ##F## must be applied to ##M_1## to keep ##M_3## from rising or falling?

Homework Equations



$$\sum_{}^{} \vec{F} = m \vec{a}$$

The Attempt at a Solution



I have chosen a coordinate system such that all particles have positive coordinates. My ##x##-axis points to the right and my ##y##-axis points upwards. The length of the rope remains constant, and it can be expressed as:
$$l = x_p - x_2 + \frac{\pi R}{2} + y_p - y_3$$
The pulley is located at ##(x_p,y_p)##.
Differentiating twice with respect to time and rearranging:
$$\ddot{x}_2 + \ddot{y}_3 = \ddot{x}_p$$
Since the pulley and ##M_1## are fixed:
$$\ddot{x}_2 + \ddot{y}_3 = \ddot{x}_1$$
Since ##\dot{y}_3 = 0## for all ##t##, ##\ddot{y}_3 = 0##.
In other words:
$$\ddot{x}_1 = \ddot{x}_2$$
Now, applying Newton's second law to each mass:
$$T - M_3 g = 0 ⇒ T = M_3 g$$
$$T = M_2 \ddot{x}_2$$
$$F - T = M_1 \ddot{x}_1$$
Where ##T## is the tension in the rope.
$$M_3 g = M_2 \ddot{x}_2 ⇒ \ddot{x}_2 = \frac{M_3 g}{M_2} = \ddot{x}_1$$
$$F = T + M_1 \ddot{x}_1 = M_3 g (1 + \frac{M_1}{M_2})$$
$$F = M_3 g \frac{M_1 + M_2}{M_2}$$
Which doesn't match the clue given in my book. According to my book, if all three masses are equal, then ##F = 3Mg##.
Where did I go wrong?
 

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How do you get your equation ##F-T=M_1\ddot x_1##? What are the forces acting on M1?
 
haruspex said:
How do you get your equation ##F-T=M_1\ddot x_1##? What are the forces acting on M1?

In the ##x##-direction, there's ##F## and ##T##.
##T## acts on the pulley, which is a part of ##M_1##.
All surfaces are frictionless.
 
MohammedRady97 said:
In the ##x##-direction, there's ##F## and ##T##.
##T## acts on the pulley, which is a part of ##M_1##.
All surfaces are frictionless.
Yes, but you've missed a force. What makes M3 accelerate?
 
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haruspex said:
Yes, but you've missed a force. What makes M3 accelerate?

The net force caused by the difference between ##N## and ##N'## (different normal reactions)?
 
MohammedRady97 said:
The net force caused by the difference between ##N## and ##N'## (different normal reactions)?

$$\vec{F}_{31} = -\vec{F}_{13}$$
The net force on ##M_3## is to the right, so the force ##M_3## exerts on ##M_1## must be to the left.
I guess I missed an additional constraint:
##\ddot{x}_1 = \ddot{x}_3## since ##x_3## and ##x_1## differ by a constant.
I got the right answer, thanks!
I have a question though, the equation only holds if ##M_3## is always in direct contact with ##M_1##, right?
I have not taken into account the fact that ##M_3## can swing left and right while deriving the first constraint equation.
 
MohammedRady97 said:
$$\vec{F}_{31} = -\vec{F}_{13}$$
The net force on ##M_3## is to the right, so the force ##M_3## exerts on ##M_1## must be to the left.
I guess I missed an additional constraint:
##\ddot{x}_1 = \ddot{x}_3## since ##x_3## and ##x_1## differ by a constant.
I got the right answer, thanks!
I have a question though, the equation only holds if ##M_3## is always in direct contact with ##M_1##, right?
I have not taken into account the fact that ##M_3## can swing left and right while deriving the first constraint equation.
Yes, if the two do not start quite in contact then there will be a different behaviour initially, but it wouldn't last long.
 

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