Solving ab = a + b: What are the Possible Answers?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Einstein's Cat
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation ab = a + b, specifically seeking integer solutions. Participants explore various approaches to identify potential solutions and the conditions under which they exist.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One solution proposed is a = b = 2, but participants question whether other integer solutions exist.
  • Some participants suggest solving for b in terms of a to explore conditions for b being an integer.
  • A participant introduces the expression b = a / (a - 1) and notes that b must be a multiple of a - 1.
  • Another participant argues that it is actually a that needs to be a multiple of a - 1 for b to be an integer.
  • There is a suggestion to test common integers in the equation to find solutions.
  • Participants discuss the implications of b being greater than 2 and the resulting constraints on a.
  • One participant critiques the limitation of testing integers only up to 10, suggesting a more general approach to the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions needed for integer solutions, particularly regarding the roles of a and b in the equation. No consensus is reached on the complete set of solutions or the implications of the conditions discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the lack of rigor in limiting integer tests to a specific range and suggest that broader cases should be considered. The discussion reflects various assumptions and interpretations of the equation without resolving them.

Einstein's Cat
Messages
182
Reaction score
2
There is the equation

ab = a + b (the solutions have to be integers)

A solution to this is a= b= 2.

What are other solutions? Are there other solutions?
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Why don't you solve for b in terms of a and think about what would be necessary for b to be an integer if a is?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: blue_leaf77
Einstein's Cat said:
Are there other solutions?
One more.
 
blue_leaf77 said:
One more.
it would be that

b= a / (a - 1)
thus b has to be a multiple of a - 1

I assume that the other solution is a=b=0
 
Einstein's Cat said:
thus b has to be a multiple of a - 1
No, it is ##a## that needs to be a multiple of ##a-1## in order for ##b## to be an integer!
 
Orodruin said:
No, it is ##a## that needs to be a multiple of ##a-1## in order for ##b## to be an integer!
what pairs of integers satisfy that? I can't for the life of me think of any!
 
Did you try to simply insert common integers into the equation?

You got one solution of a=b=2 from a^2=(a+a) which can be converted to a quadratic expression to factor right?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Logical Dog
Einstein's Cat said:
what pairs of integers satisfy that? I can't for the life of me think of any!
So prove it.
##a## being a multilple of ##a-1## means ##a=b\cdot (a-1)## and since ##a## is the greater number, ##b## has to be positive.
Can you show why ##b## cannot be greater than ##2##?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Logical Dog and Einstein's Cat
fresh_42 said:
So prove it.
##a## being a multilple of ##a-1## means ##a=b\cdot (a-1)## and since ##a## is the greater number, ##b## has to be positive.
Can you show why ##b## cannot be greater than ##2##?
if b is greater than 2, say 3, then a= 3a - 3. no integer satisfies this from 1 to 10 and has a gets bigger the 3 is a smaller proportion of a so it can be assumed that this is the case
 
  • #10
Einstein's Cat said:
if b is greater than 2, say 3, then a= 3a - 3. no integer satisfies this from 1 to 10 and has a gets bigger the 3 is a smaller proportion of a so it can be assumed that this is the case
Well, ... yes. But the restriction to numbers until ##10## lacks a bit of rigor. ##a=b(a-1) > 2(a-1) = 2a -2## and thus ##a<2## would be more general and also leaves you with the cases ##a \in \{0,1\}\, ##or## \, b \in \{0,1,2\}## which you can handle manually. Or you proceed along the lines @jedishrfu has pointed out in #7.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Logical Dog

Similar threads

  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K