Solving Second Order Partial Derivative By Changing Variable

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a second order partial differential equation given by $$u_{xx} + 2u_{xy} + u_{yy}=0$$ using a change of variables, specifically with the substitutions ##t = x## and ##z = x-y##. Participants explore the implications of these substitutions on the derivatives involved in the equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to apply the chain rule for the first derivative but struggles with the second derivative after the change of variables. They express uncertainty about the validity of their expressions and seek guidance. Other participants discuss the conditions under which mixed derivatives can be interchanged and question the general applicability of these rules in the context of coordinate changes.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing insights and clarifications regarding the application of the chain rule and the properties of derivatives. Some have suggested alternative approaches and interpretations of the problem, while the original poster expresses appreciation for the assistance received.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to the continuity of second derivatives and the implications of Schwartz's theorem, highlighting the complexity of changing variables in partial differential equations. There is also mention of the operators used in the context of the problem.

Peter Alexander
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1. The problem statement, all variables, and given/known data
Given is a second order partial differential equation $$u_{xx} + 2u_{xy} + u_{yy}=0$$ which should be solved with change of variables, namely ##t = x## and ##z = x-y##.

Homework Equations


Chain rule $$\frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dz}{dy} \cdot \frac{dy}{dx}$$

The Attempt at a Solution


I was able to make the first change of variables $$\frac{\partial u}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial t} \cdot \frac{\partial t}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \cdot \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = u_t + u_z$$ but I'm stuck at making the second change of variables (for second derivative). If I attempt repeating the same process I end up with $$\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial}{\partial x}(\frac{\partial u}{\partial t} \cdot \frac{\partial t}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \cdot \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial z}$$I don't think that I can write something like ##u_{tx}##?

I think this task is easy to solve, I'm apparently just missing something, Can somebody please help me? I don't expect anyone to solve homework tasks instead of me, I just need some guidance.

PS: Hope you're having a wonderful Tuesday!
 
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Under certain conditions, i.e. if the second derivatives of ##u## are continuous, you can according to Schwartz theorem change the order of the mixed derivatives. E.g, $$\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x \partial t}=\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial t \partial x}=\frac{\partial}{\partial t}(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x})$$.
 
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eys_physics said:
Under certain conditions, i.e. if the second derivatives of ##u## are continuous, you can according to Schwartz theorem change the order of the mixed derivatives. E.g, $$\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x \partial t}=\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial t \partial x}=\frac{\partial}{\partial t}(\frac{\partial u}{\partial x})$$.
This is true when you are taking second derivatives with respect to independent variables - in the case of this problem t and z or x and y. It is not generally true when you make coordinate changes!
 
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Peter Alexander said:
1. The problem statement, all variables, and given/known data
Given is a second order partial differential equation $$u_{xx} + 2u_{xy} + u_{yy}=0$$ which should be solved with change of variables, namely ##t = x## and ##z = x-y##.

Homework Equations


Chain rule $$\frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dz}{dy} \cdot \frac{dy}{dx}$$

The Attempt at a Solution


I was able to make the first change of variables $$\frac{\partial u}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial t} \cdot \frac{\partial t}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \cdot \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = u_t + u_z$$ but I'm stuck at making the second change of variables (for second derivative). If I attempt repeating the same process I end up with $$\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial}{\partial x}(\frac{\partial u}{\partial t} \cdot \frac{\partial t}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \cdot \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial z}$$I don't think that I can write something like ##u_{tx}##?

I think this task is easy to solve, I'm apparently just missing something, Can somebody please help me? I don't expect anyone to solve homework tasks instead of me, I just need some guidance.

PS: Hope you're having a wonderful Tuesday!

Your expression for the partial derivative of u with respect to x is true for any function u. In particular, it is true if you replace u by ##u_t##.
 
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Peter Alexander said:
1. The problem statement, all variables, and given/known data
Given is a second order partial differential equation $$u_{xx} + 2u_{xy} + u_{yy}=0$$ which should be solved with change of variables, namely ##t = x## and ##z = x-y##.

Homework Equations


Chain rule $$\frac{dz}{dx} = \frac{dz}{dy} \cdot \frac{dy}{dx}$$

The Attempt at a Solution


I was able to make the first change of variables $$\frac{\partial u}{\partial x} = \frac{\partial u}{\partial t} \cdot \frac{\partial t}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \cdot \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} = u_t + u_z$$ but I'm stuck at making the second change of variables (for second derivative). If I attempt repeating the same process I end up with $$\frac{\partial^2 u}{\partial x^2} = \frac{\partial}{\partial x}(\frac{\partial u}{\partial t} \cdot \frac{\partial t}{\partial x} + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \cdot \frac{\partial z}{\partial x}) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial t} + \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \cdot \frac{\partial u}{\partial z}$$I don't think that I can write something like ##u_{tx}##?

I think this task is easy to solve, I'm apparently just missing something, Can somebody please help me? I don't expect anyone to solve homework tasks instead of me, I just need some guidance.

PS: Hope you're having a wonderful Tuesday!

If you introduce the operators ##D_x = \partial / \partial x## and ##D_y = \partial / \partial y## your pde is ##(D_x+D_y)^2 u =0##. Thus, if ##v = (D_x + D_y) u## we have ##(D_x + D_y) v = 0, ## whose general solution is ##v = f(x-y)## for some differentiable univariate function ##f(\cdot)##. The pde becomes ##(D_x+D_y)u(x,y) = f(x-y)##. I think this new pde is fairly straightforward to solve, in terms of the new independent variables ##x-y## and ##x+y##.
 
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I apologize for the late response, did read through the post and managed to finally solve the task. I would like to thank everyone here for helping me out on that one, I appreciate your time and effort! Really helped me a lot!

Hope you're all having a fantastic Friday ;)
 

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