Solving the Curved Space Puzzle: e or c?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the implications of curved space in relation to the twins paradox, using a bow analogy to illustrate the concept. Participants explore various outcomes based on two paths: the 'wooden' path representing a straight line in curved space and the 'string' path appearing curved. The Schwarzschild metric is referenced for calculating elapsed proper times, with the Kerr metric suggested for rotating gravitational fields. The conclusion indicates that the 'string' route may be shorter in distance but requires more energy, aligning with the complexities of general relativity.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of general relativity concepts, particularly the twins paradox.
  • Familiarity with the Schwarzschild metric and its application in gravitational fields.
  • Knowledge of the Kerr metric for rotating black holes.
  • Basic calculus for integrating differential equations in physics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the implications of the Schwarzschild metric in gravitational time dilation.
  • Explore the Kerr metric and its effects on time and space around rotating massive objects.
  • Investigate the concept of geodesics in curved spacetime.
  • Learn about energy requirements in traversing different paths in curved space.
USEFUL FOR

Physicists, astrophysicists, and students of general relativity who are interested in the effects of gravity on time and space, particularly in complex scenarios like the twins paradox.

Nickelodeon
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If you think of a bow (as in bow and arrow) placed in space in the proximity of a massive object. This bow for arguments sake is 100 km from tip to tip.

Now replace the bow (wooden part and string) with what might be considered waypoints. The curved wooden part represents a straight line in curved space and the taught string would, I suppose, appear curved.

If one person sets off along the 'wooden' path and simultaneously someone else sets off along the 'string' path what would be the outcome

a) They would both arrive at the furthermost tip at the same time but the person who chose the string route was older?

b) The person who chose the 'wooden' path arrived first?

c) The person who chose the 'string' path arrived first?

d) They both arrived together and their biological clocks where still in sync?

e) The string route was shorter in distance but required more energy to traverse?

f) none of the above?



I'm not sure but I would think answer 'e' seems likely and probably 'c'
 
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Nickelodeon said:
If you think of a bow (as in bow and arrow) placed in space in the proximity of a massive object. This bow for arguments sake is 100 km from tip to tip.

Now replace the bow (wooden part and string) with what might be considered waypoints. The curved wooden part represents a straight line in curved space and the taught string would, I suppose, appear curved.

If one person sets off along the 'wooden' path and simultaneously someone else sets off along the 'string' path what would be the outcome

a) They would both arrive at the furthermost tip at the same time but the person who chose the string route was older?

b) The person who chose the 'wooden' path arrived first?

c) The person who chose the 'string' path arrived first?

d) They both arrived together and their biological clocks where still in sync?

e) The string route was shorter in distance but required more energy to traverse?

f) none of the above?



I'm not sure but I would think answer 'e' seems likely and probably 'c'


The problem as stated is ill-posed. This is a variant of the twins paradox set in a gravitational field. Whether or not the twins arrive at destination at the same time is obviously a function of their respective speeds and their respective path lengths. If they do not arrive simultneously, the problem is tougher.
Let's assume that they twins arrive simultaneously, at time "T". Their total elapsed proper times is can be calculated from the Schwarzschild metric, via integration wrt the coordinate time. If the massive gravitational object is rotating, you will need to replace the Schwarzschild metric with the Kerr one. Here is a sketch of the solution:

[tex]d\tau^2=\alpha dt^2-\frac{1}{\alpha}dr^2-r^2 (d \phi)^2[/tex]

[tex]d\tau=dt \sqrt(\alpha -\frac{1}{\alpha}\frac{dr^2}{dt^2}-r^2 \frac{d \phi^2}{dt^2})[/tex]

Integrate the above wrt "t" with 0<t<T and you have your solution. You will need to note that for the twin traveling along the bow chord

[tex]d \phi=0[/tex].

For the twin traveling along the bow, you have

[tex]\phi=f(r)[/tex]

Nasty stuff :-) Things get even nastier since

[tex]\alpha=1-2m/r[/tex]
 
Last edited:
starthaus said:
The problem as stated is ill-posed. This is a variant of the twins paradox set in a gravitational field. Whether or not the twins arrive at destination at the same time is obviously a function of their respective speeds and their respective path lengths. ...

What I was trying to get straight in my mind was whether in curved space it is quicker to reach a destination by not taking what would appear to be the straight line path, ie take a short cut. For instance, in an extreme situation where the curvature forces light to veer 90 degrees then could one assume that the shortest time to a destination would be by not following the more obvious route. (in my example above the more obvious route would be along the wooded bit of the bow) - probably not explaining myself very well.
 

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