News Somali Pirates seize super tanker

[mheslep]

5"/54. Accept no substitute.

I didn't miss much with a 105mm, though the platform didn't float very well.

 

[edward]

This is definitely bad news. If that 20 mile distance is true the pirates now have a great advantage. That is a long way to drift in less than three days. That lifeboat must have had more fuel than originally thought.

Three U.S. warships were in the area around the lifeboat. A U.S. military official who spoke on condition of anonymity said crew members on the destroyer USS Bainbridge saw Phillips on Friday from a distance of several hundred yards (meters), moving and talking aboard the boat after his failed escape.

CNN said on Saturday the Bainbridge sent a small boat to approach the lifeboat to open communication, but the pirates responded with gunfire. The Navy personnel then retreated.

NBC television and CBS radio said the lifeboat had drifted to within 20 miles of the Somali coast, and that U.S. military officials feared that if the craft reached the shore, the pirates might escape with their hostage on land.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090411/ts_nm/us_somalia_piracy

 

[Vanadium 50]

According to CNN, the captain is safe, and 3 of the 4 pirates are dead.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm thrilled - this is the best outcome that could have been expected.

But I've been thinking about this and was talking to my dad about it today and I realize we're approaching the overall situation wrong. I've speculated about how it might be possible to protect shipping, but that is not the correct tactic here. There was a time when piracy was treated as war and pirates were hunted down and killed and that's what needs to be done here. We should not be acting defensively, we should be acting offensively. As a former sailor, it is offensive to me that we continue to allow piracy to exist.

 

[Vanadium 50]

That's exactly right. If we want to end this, we need to explain in no uncertain terms to the pirates that it is dangerous to attack US flagged vessels.

 

[Borek]

The only good pirat is a dead pirat.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...Just after dark on Sunday, snipers on the U.S.S. Bainbridge saw that one of the pirates was pointing an automatic rifle at Captain Phillips, and that the captors’ heads and shoulders were exposed from the capsule-like lifeboat. President Obama had previously authorized the use of force if the commander on the scene believed the captain’s life was in danger, so they fired, Admiral Gortney said. The lifeboat was about 100 feet from the Bainbridge when the shots were fired, shortly after 7 p.m. Somalia time (seven hours ahead of Eastern time). Asked where Captain Phillips was at the time the shots were fired, Admiral Gortney said he was not sure but that he had to be less than 18 feet away, the length of the lifeboat...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/world/africa/13pirates.html?hp

Early reports have the snipers - Navy Seals - parachuting in and hiding out of view on the fantail of the Bainbridge, as reported, for days... did I hear that right??

According to CNN, only three shots were fired.

 

[LowlyPion]

I see the pirates are threatening to escalate the violence and seek retribution. I'd think that would be a poor strategic move.

I think there has been too much pussyfooting around with these criminals. If it no longer pays, and crews are at risk, then that will be unfortunate indeed. But then again, maybe crews won't take as passive an approach to being hijacked? Maybe when these pirates begin to board, if they are taking rounds, instead of water hoses ...

 

[edward]

It has been the ships owners who have insisted that the crews remain passive. The owners carry insurance policies that pay the ransom.

Now that the premiums will be going up that all may change.

 

[LowlyPion]

It has been the ships owners who have insisted that the crews remain passive. The owners carry insurance policies that pay the ransom.

Now that the premiums will be going up that all may change.

The insurance companies have been approaching it as a policy of appeasement. This has only served to encourage more bad behavior.

Now I realize there is a human side to what drives the pirates to set out to do what they do. And apparently their entire country is pretty much dysfunctional, and for many this may be the only choice they have to make any living at all. But this dynamic of raiding ships and holding others for ransom ... this addiction to easy money through criminal acts looks like it needs to come to an end.

 

[Alfi]

Canadian warship foils third attempted hijacking

THE CANADIAN PRESS
For the third time in a week the crew of the Canadian Navy's HMCS Winnipeg has helped thwart a suspected pirate attack off the Gulf of Aden.

Cmdr. Craig Baines told CTV NewsNet that the Winnipeg dispatched its Sea King helicopter Friday night after a civilian vessel reported four people in a skiff were firing weapons at it.
Once the suspected pirate vessel was located, Baines says a boarding team was sent over.
However, as the team approached the skiff in the dark the crew saw a number of items, possibly weapons, being thrown overboard.

On Wednesday, the Canadian warship was involved in a similar incident involving a skiff with four men firing at a civilian vessel, and on April 4, its Sea King crew warded off another potential attack.

The Winnipeg is currently participating in a NATO-led counter-piracy mission known as Operation Allied Protector.
I'm glad to see we are dong what we can to help.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

...We have decided to kill U.S. and French sailors if they happen to be among our future hostages," said Abdullahi Ahmed, a member of a pirate group based at Harardhere, a coastal town in central Somalia...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/13/somalia.pirates.revenge/

 

[turbo]

Not a smart move on the part of the Somali pirates. As long as they harassed shipping, demanded ransoms, and didn't start shooting hostages, the commercial shippers and the insurers were willing to take some losses. If the pirates start killing people in retribution for their modest personnel losses to date, they're going to have to figure out how to hide from helicopter gunships and warships or die trying.

 

[mheslep]

"We have decided ... said Abdullahi Ahmed, a member of a pirate group based..."
How surreal. As if the pirates have carefully selected a spokesman, who was sitting in the press office of the local Pirate headquarters handing out Pirate policy briefing statements to the press. That kind of spin is a requirement I venture in order for the press to claim it a newsworthy statement instead of trash talk from some street side wretch with a gun in his hand.

 

[Borek]

This is in a way funny. Before they explained they have to pirate as they have no other means to live. Now they are going to spend the money on the terrorist attacks, instead of food and medicines.

 

[misgfool]

This is in a way funny. Before they explained they have to pirate as they have no other means to live. Now they are going to spend the money on the terrorist attacks, instead of food and medicines.

God bless capitalism. You have to invest there where the ROI is highest.

 

[turbo]

"We have decided ... said Abdullahi Ahmed, a member of a pirate group based..."
How surreal. As if the pirates have carefully selected a spokesman, who was sitting in the press office of the local Pirate headquarters handing out Pirate policy briefing statements to the press. That kind of spin is a requirement I venture in order for the press to claim it a newsworthy statement instead of trash talk from some street side wretch with a gun in his hand.

It's a bit silly to think of these guys as a monolithic enterprise, but given their successes, they might well be the best-run organization or cartel of organizations in the country.

 

[Vanadium 50]

If the pirates start killing people in retribution for their modest personnel losses to date, they're going to have to figure out how to hide from helicopter gunships and warships or die trying.

To quote Bill Cosby, "How long can you tread water?"

 

[Astronuc]

Well the pirates have a choice, stop the criminal activity or face the consequences, which could include the razing of any village, which supports the pirates.

Remember "the shores of Tripoli".

The notion that they cannot find an alternative is absurd. There are two historically basic human activities called fishing and agriculture, to which one can add silviculture (and a subsequent forestry and lumber industry). Now it could be that these guys think that honest hard work is below them. Well tough. They can choose to forgo criminal activity, or the choice will be made for them.

 

[mgb_phys]

which could include the razing of any village, which supports the pirates.

Will the determination that a village has supported pirates be made on the ground by an independent investigator or from 60,000ft by a B52?

There are two historically basic human activities called fishing and agriculture,

They allege the reason many Somalis support the pirates is that since the breakdown of the Somali government and it's coast guard the fish stocks have been destroyed by foreign factory trawlers. The people feel the pirates are effectively the unofficial Somali coast guard extracting fees.

 

[drankin]

You may be right mgb about why they are pirating, but what are we supposed to do about it? Let them continue piracy because they are in a disadvantaged commercial position? There are reports that they are firing automatic weapons at other boats and when confronted by any kind of authority, just throwing their weapons in the water and saying "we didn't do it". Lawlessneww may be result of their situation but it can't be an excuse for their actions.

 

[mgb_phys]

No - you sink the pirates boats, it gives you something to use all those billion $ warships for (since Al Quiada is being very uncooperative by refusing to fight at Midway)

But to go from, pirates are Somali, therefore just dial the coords of any village in Somalia into the cruise missile to teach them a lesson has been tried before - it didn't exactly win many hearts and minds in Cambodia.

 

[drankin]

No - you sink the pirates boats, it gives you something to use all those billion $ warships for (since Al Quiada is being very uncooperative by refusing to fight at Midway)

But to go from, pirates are Somali, therefore just dial the coords of any village in Somalia into the cruise missile to teach them a lesson has been tried before - it didn't exactly win many hearts and minds in Cambodia.

I pretty much agree. It would take resources of many UN countries to babysit this whole area. But, yeah, you see a boat with guns blazing, sink it.

 

[BobG]

Will the determination that a village has supported pirates be made on the ground by an independent investigator or from 60,000ft by a B52?


They allege the reason many Somalis support the pirates is that since the breakdown of the Somali government and it's coast guard the fish stocks have been destroyed by foreign factory trawlers. The people feel the pirates are effectively the unofficial Somali coast guard extracting fees.

Not too mention the possibility that the Somali coast has become one of the cheapest places to dump hazardous waste in the world. It can cost up to $250 per ton to dispose of hazardous waste in Europe, while the only cost to dumping off the Somalia coast is the cost of the trip (one the ship was going to take anyway if it's a fishing vessel). I hesitate to put too much credence even in the Chicago Tribune when it comes to http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-somalia-pirates_salopek1oct10,0,6155016.story, but the opportunity is certainly there.

In any event, foreign companies with more sophisticated fishing boats pull in more money off the Somali coast than the Somali fishermen ever did. Somali pirates pull in an estimated $100 million a year while foreign fishing sucks about $300 million a year out of Somali waters.

The $100 million is getting pretty high if that estimate is accurate. That's averages out to about an extra $5000 per trip. Low estimates start a little over $30 million a year, which would add an extra $1500 per trip. (Ideally, the cost should be shared by everyone via insurance premiums, hence spreading the ransom out over all ships that go through the gulf).

 

[LowlyPion]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/13/somalia.pirates.revenge/

"...We have decided to kill U.S. and French sailors"

That looks like bluster.

It also looks like a bad career move for Ahmed if they were ever to actually carry that out.

For French and American crews, then they are given at a minimum a very good reason to carry weapons to defend themselves.

Escalating the shooting can't be good for a country that has trouble feeding itself.

 

[Astronuc]

Will the determination that a village has supported pirates be made on the ground by an independent investigator or from 60,000ft by a B52?

I didn't indicate that any village should be razed, not how it would be done, nor do I condone it.

They allege the reason many Somalis support the pirates is that since the breakdown of the Somali government and it's coast guard the fish stocks have been destroyed by foreign factory trawlers. The people feel the pirates are effectively the unofficial Somali coast guard extracting fees.

Allegedly. Perhaps it's time to change the government. There a legal methods to deal with infringement of foreign fishing trawlers. So let the pirates go after the trawlers, but legally.

 

[Proton Soup]

if it were truly about fishing, you'd think they'd limit their hijacking activities to fishing boats.

 

[LowlyPion]

if it were truly about fishing, you'd think they'd limit their hijacking activities to fishing boats.

Once they made the transition to red meat, then they just became carnivores - anything they could. The bigger the more ransom. Why wouldn't they move up the chain.

 

[russ_watters]

Canadian warship foils third attempted hijacking

THE CANADIAN PRESS
For the third time in a week the crew of the Canadian Navy's HMCS Winnipeg has helped thwart a suspected pirate attack off the Gulf of Aden.

Cmdr. Craig Baines told CTV NewsNet that the Winnipeg dispatched its Sea King helicopter Friday night after a civilian vessel reported four people in a skiff were firing weapons at it.
Once the suspected pirate vessel was located, Baines says a boarding team was sent over.
However, as the team approached the skiff in the dark the crew saw a number of items, possibly weapons, being thrown overboard.

On Wednesday, the Canadian warship was involved in a similar incident involving a skiff with four men firing at a civilian vessel, and on April 4, its Sea King crew warded off another potential attack.

The Winnipeg is currently participating in a NATO-led counter-piracy mission known as Operation Allied Protector.

I'm glad to see we are dong what we can to help.

Nothing against the Canadian Navy, but this is another example of employing the wrong tactics, just like everyone else (including the Americans) is doing. If someone is dumping weapons off of their boat when challenged by a warship, that tells you unequivocably that they are pirates and they shouldn't be allowed to exist, they should be destroyed where they sit. We shouldn't merely be "thwarting attacks", we should be destroying pirate ships.

 

[LowlyPion]

Here's the video of the Navy news release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUY-6Fwu9X0