The discussion revolves around a proposed relationship between bitwise operations (AND and OR) on two numbers and their arithmetic sum. Participants explore the implications of this relationship, provide examples, and clarify the operations involved.
Discussion Character
Exploratory
Technical explanation
Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
One participant describes a process involving AND and OR operations on two numbers, claiming that the sum of these results equals the sum of the original numbers.
Another participant requests clarification and examples of the AND and OR operations in base 10.
A different participant suggests that the terms "X and Y" and "X or Y" could be interpreted as min(X,Y) and max(X,Y), respectively, proposing that this interpretation leads to the same conclusion about their sum.
A later reply reiterates the original claim and provides a detailed explanation of how bitwise operations work, including an example with specific numbers (P=5 and Q=6) to illustrate the process and results.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express varying interpretations of the operations and their implications. While some agree on the relationship between the operations and the arithmetic sum, others question the initial claim and propose alternative interpretations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these operations.
Contextual Notes
The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of the numbers involved (e.g., whether they are positive integers) and the specific definitions of the operations, which may affect the validity of the claims made.
#1
vin300
602
4
I haven't known about a law that says so. Step 1: using two numbers in any format: binary, octa, hexa, do an AND operation. Step 2: Perform OR operation on the same numbers. Step 3: Add the results of step 1 and 2 numerically. The result comes out to be the same as the sum of original numbers.
Give an example to explain what you mean by performing an "AND" and an "OR" operation on two numbers. Show an example in ordinary base 10 representation.
Hmm I wonder if "X and Y" simply means min(X,Y) and "X or Y" means max(X,Y), when applied to numbers. If so, what vin300 has discovered is just that min(X,Y)+max(X,Y)=X+Y, which is easy to see.
#4
h6ss
77
9
vin300 said:
I haven't known about a law that says so. Step 1: using two numbers in any format: binary, octa, hexa, do an AND operation. Step 2: Perform OR operation on the same numbers. Step 3: Add the results of step 1 and 2 numerically. The result comes out to be the same as the sum of original numbers.
What you "discovered" is that P&Q added to P|Q is equal to P+Q, right?
Here's a short explanation of what's really happening. Using the bitwise operator "&" for the logical operator "AND" and the bitwise operator "|" for the logical operator "OR", evaluating the expression P&Q basically creates a binary number with "1" at each position where both numbers have a "1" and puts zeros elsewhere; the expression P|Q does the same thing but puts a "1" at each position where at least one of the two numbers has a "1" and also puts zeros elsewhere. So when you add both expressions P|Q and P&Q, you're basically adding P and Q and the remainders, which gives you P+Q. This works under binary arithmetic since the only possible operations we have for addition are:
0 + 0 = 0
0 + 1 = 1
1 + 0 = 1
1 + 1 = 0, and carry 1 to the next more significant bit, i.e. in this direction ←
In other words, when you evaluate P&Q or P|Q, every position where P and Q both had zeros will remain zero; likewise, every position where at least P or Q or both had "1" will remain the same. Since in the last case one event is included in the other, this assures you under the arithmetic rules we agreed on that adding P&Q and P|Q is equivalent to add P and Q.
Here is an example with P=5 and Q=6:
Code:
Expression Result Binary Description
P 5 00000101
Q 6 00000110
P & Q 4 00000101 & 00000110 = 00000100
P | Q 7 00000101 | 00000110 = 00000111
1
00000101 = P
+ 00000110 = Q
----------
00001011 = P + Q
We can see that both expressions are equal. Of course the mathematical representation of bitwise operations can get messier depending of what we're using, e.g. if P and Q are not positive and/or integers, but that's the general procedure used to handle these operations, and basically every programming language that I know of does that.