Somewhat Complicated Thermal Problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the temperature of the volume inside an enclosure containing a solar panel, considering various materials and heat transfer mechanisms involved, such as radiation and convection. Participants explore theoretical approaches and practical considerations related to thermal dynamics in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the setup involving a solar panel, its materials, and the air-tight enclosure, seeking a method to calculate the internal temperature based on the panel's backside temperature.
  • Another participant provides equations for heat transfer by radiation and convection, detailing parameters like the Nusselt number and thermal conductivity, but notes that the calculations are iterative.
  • A later reply questions the meaning of "air temperature rise" and whether to combine radiation and convection heat transfer for total heat calculation.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about obtaining a definitive answer through calculations, suggesting that practical experimentation may be more effective.
  • Another participant agrees with the skepticism but emphasizes the importance of temperature rise calculations in electrical machine design, referencing external articles for further reading.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of calculating the temperature within the enclosure, with some advocating for theoretical calculations and others suggesting practical experimentation as a more reliable approach. No consensus is reached on the best method to determine the internal temperature.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the problem, noting that assumptions about material properties and heat transfer mechanisms may significantly affect the results. The iterative nature of the calculations and the potential for varying outcomes based on experimental conditions are also acknowledged.

unix101os
Problem Description:
I have a solar panel of some surface area, material, and thickness mounted to an enclosure. The panel is isolated from the enclosure at some distance with a multitude of materials (air, insulation, plastic, metal) between the back surface of the panel and interior volume (which is air tight). Given the temperature of the backside of the panel and that the materials behind the panel will be shaded (ie only receive IR light radiating from the back of the panel) how can I calculate the temperature of the volume inside the enclosure?
 
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upload_2017-9-23_11-8-31.png

s=source r=receiver T[oK=273.4+oC]
Transferred by radiation heat will be:
qrad=ks(Ts/100)^4-kr*(Tr/100)^4)
k=4.96 kcal/m^2*h*(100/oK)^4 for black material.
For aluminum surface -for instance- could be 0.26.
Heat transfer could be done by convection also.
qconv=a*A*qa where:
a=Nu*lk/D A=panel surface area[m^2] Nu=Nussfeld factor
lk=air thermal conductivity[at 40oC =0.027 W/m/oC
D=panel height]m]
Nu[Nussfeld factor] depends on two other factors :Grashof and Prandtl[0.74 for air].
qa=qA-(qo+Dq/2) where:
qA=panel surface temperature qo=ambient air temperature
Dq=air temperature rise
The air will receive at first the convection heat. If you don't know which part of this will be transferred to the enclosure take it all.
If the panel is insulated we have a temperature drop through the insulated material by conduction.
q=l/s*A*ql
s=insulation thickness [m] l=material thermal conductivity ql=dT/dx
This calculation is iterative [you have to recalculate the heat transfer many time].
If the enclosure does not contain any heat sources a convection heat transfer may be enough for calculation of cooling .
 
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Babadag said:
View attachment 211552
s=source r=receiver T[oK=273.4+oC]
Transferred by radiation heat will be:
qrad=ks(Ts/100)^4-kr*(Tr/100)^4)
k=4.96 kcal/m^2*h*(100/oK)^4 for black material.
For aluminum surface -for instance- could be 0.26.
Heat transfer could be done by convection also.
qconv=a*A*qa where:
a=Nu*lk/D A=panel surface area[m^2] Nu=Nussfeld factor
lk=air thermal conductivity[at 40oC =0.027 W/m/oC
D=panel height]m]
Nu[Nussfeld factor] depends on two other factors :Grashof and Prandtl[0.74 for air].
qa=qA-(qo+Dq/2) where:
qA=panel surface temperature qo=ambient air temperature
Dq=air temperature rise
The air will receive at first the convection heat. If you don't know which part of this will be transferred to the enclosure take it all.
If the panel is insulated we have a temperature drop through the insulated material by conduction.
q=l/s*A*ql
s=insulation thickness [m] l=material thermal conductivity ql=dT/dx
This calculation is iterative [you have to recalculate the heat transfer many time].
If the enclosure does not contain any heat sources a convection heat transfer may be enough for calculation of cooling .
Thank you so much this is very helpful!
 
some questions though,

What is meant my air temp rise (Dq)?
Would I add qrad and qconv to get total heat transfer through air?
Do I use qrad+qconv to solve for Thot?
 
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upload_2017-9-25_20-40-35.png

I am sorry. Since I did not succeed to write the Greek letter q and theta was the same.
Actually, the text has to be as in image. The radiation and convection transferred
heat will reach together the enclosure. However, the air between will get only the convection.
 
unix101os said:
Problem Description:
I have a solar panel of some surface area, material, and thickness mounted to an enclosure. The panel is isolated from the enclosure at some distance with a multitude of materials (air, insulation, plastic, metal) between the back surface of the panel and interior volume (which is air tight). Given the temperature of the backside of the panel and that the materials behind the panel will be shaded (ie only receive IR light radiating from the back of the panel) how can I calculate the temperature of the volume inside the enclosure?

Realistically there is no way to obtain a definite answer to this problem by calculation . As in many similar problems it will be easier to just build the assembly and see how hot it gets . If it gets too hot then modify the assembly .
 
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