Do some animals have more soul than others?

[Sould]

Soul dog !

Do animals have their own souls or is it because we think they do ?
What do teh philosophists call the people who believe that animals have souls ?
I know a person who calls hmself souldog and uses that name wherever he goes just after his loved dog died of cancer. He once told me so.

Thank for your answers...

Souldina

 

[ph]

man is an animal too

yes, i believe animals have souls. I'm not too sure about rodents, if a rodent is an animal then i suppose, what do you think?

i even think rocks have "spirit" or whatever energy runs through them because you can feel it when it hits your big toe, or at least i can.

reminds me of the other weekend ... tossing snowballs (frozen water?) and that for sure has soul/spirit/energy whatever they call it.

 

[ph]

soul-c

oops, AND cats for sure. I have a "wild" cat, they named him "boy" (cat), well he came to us hungry for ... and ... so he is now my Canadian cat, BC - Boy Cat...he keeps coming back! He loves it when i call him "BC" Sometimes he doesn't leave. He's got soul

 

[Kerrie]

the fact that animals are able to sense natural disasters shortly before they happen is evidence enough for me to believe they are more conscious then we give them credit for.

 

[tumor]

Animals are more in tune with the Earth,they can read subtle changes in weather,about soul thing I don't know nothing.

 

[Math Is Hard]

I believe that all living things have souls. Humans evolved from primates, so if you believe that humans have a soul and animals don't, my question would be: where is the boundary in the evolutionary timeline that marks the first creature to possesses a soul? That question always puzzled me. It seems only logical to me that if human beings have souls, then other living creatures must also.
One of my favorite books on the subject is The Souls of Animals by Gary Kowalski, a Unitarian minister. I really liked what he had to say on the subject. You might enjoy reading that, and maybe your friend would find it comforting.

 

[tumor]

If animals have soul, do they then have their animal God?

 

[Kerrie]

If animals have soul, do they then have their animal God?

what does having a sould have to do with having a god?

 

[Sould]

But could you tell me
we all usually say that animals are all lowlevel developed when compared to human beings, so how can they sense what'll happen on the Earth surface or how is the coming weather ?

PS By teh way, I actually don't even know how to define what soul is but I am sure my soul dog is really good ! Its been nearly 2 years and what he did or said were all good for me... -lol--

 

[Sould]

what does having a sould have to do with having a god?

Kerrie, did you make a typo ?

 

[Justinius]

Wouldn't giving an animal a soul put it on the same level as a human being in essence? This is impossible because we know humans are on a higher life form than animals.

 

[Sould]

Yes, but a lto of people lovetheir pets much and when their dogs die, they miss thim as if they miss their lovers


Sould

 

[Math Is Hard]

Wouldn't giving an animal a soul put it on the same level as a human being in essence? This is impossible because we know humans are on a higher life form than animals.

Could you explain what you mean by 'same level'? It sounds like your criteria for deciding whether or not a creature has a soul is based strictly on brain development. There are human beings who have limited brain function, such as those who were born mentally retarded, who have suffered a brain injury or Alzheimer's disease, but I don't think you would argue that these people don't have souls simply because of their brain impairment. Or would you? Just curious.

 

[loseyourname]

More to the point, would you grant a person born without a brain a soul? What the heck is soul anyway? What exactly do you people mean when you use the word? I get the feeling it isn't very consistent from poster to poster.

 

[tumor]

what does having a sould have to do with having a god?

In religious terms God gave us soul, right? so, then if an animals have soul they could have a God.
This soul thing is bunch of crap of course, but let's speculate.

 

[Math Is Hard]

More to the point, would you grant a person born without a brain a soul? What the heck is soul anyway? What exactly do you people mean when you use the word? I get the feeling it isn't very consistent from poster to poster.

I agree with you that there are probably a variety of concepts for the word 'soul' between the posters to this thread. For many people I think it is a very personal concept, highly influenced by their religious upbringing (or lack of religious upbringing). I was curious what the dictionary definition of a 'soul' was, and if it was reasonably close to my own concept. I found the following on Dictionary.com:

1. The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.

2. The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

I think this is pretty close to my own idea of the soul. I see it as the non-physical and immortal part of my consciousness. The roots of my concept about this formed from childhood (Christian) Sunday school lessons, but reading about other cultures' and religions' beliefs about the soul influenced my view, also.

Actually, I believe the first stumbling block I hit with Christianity was when I was going to a Seventh Day Adventist church as a kid and one of the Bible lessons they gave us specifically said that animals did not have souls. I had a lot of trouble with that because I could not reason out why this would be. What kind of a heaven (and they did believe in heaven) would have no singing birds? Why would the pet cat who had given me so much unconditional love simply cease to exist while I would go on for eternity? It just did not seem logical.

(p.s. Kerrie, I apologize if I spoke too much about religion here. I'll knock it off, and go ahead and delete anything you think might be inappropriate. Thanks.)

 

[Curious3141]

The question is meaningless to one who does not believe in a soul (i.e. a materialist, like myself).

Regarding these definitions :

1. The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.

2. The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.

The first is flawed because people with damage to specific areas of the brain have rather strange side effects. Frontal lobe syndrome can cause marked changes in personality and affect while leaving superficial cognitive skills unaffected. FLS sufferers remain functional as humans, but essentially become "different people", alienated from those who used to know them. This shows that organic lesions in the brain can cause changes in those attributes that were assumed to be dictated by an immaterial 'soul'.

The second "definition" is vague enough and is untestable enough to be pretty much always "valid" in the face of any criticism. It is a matter of simple faith, not a scientifically testable postulate.

Short answer : dogs don't have 'souls'. But then neither do humans.

 

[Math Is Hard]

The question is meaningless to one who does not believe in a soul (i.e. a materialist, like myself).

I would think so. I am surprised you are entering this discussion. I would think you'd find it boring.

Regarding these definitions :

The first is flawed because people with damage to specific areas of the brain have rather strange side effects. Frontal lobe syndrome can cause marked changes in personality and affect while leaving superficial cognitive skills unaffected. FLS sufferers remain functional as humans, but essentially become "different people", alienated from those who used to know them. This shows that organic lesions in the brain can cause changes in those attributes that were assumed to be dictated by an immaterial 'soul'.

I am not completely satisfied with this definition, either. But I think your rebuttal is equating the soul with the personality, and I don't think the two are synonymous.

The second "definition" is vague enough and is untestable enough to be pretty much always "valid" in the face of any criticism. It is a matter of simple faith, not a scientifically testable postulate.

Agreed. in scientific terms, it does not hold much meaning, but we're talking about concepts outside the physical world and the scientifically-testable realm.

Short answer : dogs don't have 'souls'. But then neither do humans.

I am going along similar lines of reasoning as you are here, but in a different direction. It's all or nothing. Either everything has a soul, or nothing has a soul. The problem I have is with some theologically-constructed dividing line between man and beast determining what species has achieved a high-enough evolutionary status to be considered 'soul-worthy'. If I were a creationist, I probably wouldn't take issue with this, but I am not.

 

[Curious3141]

I would think so. I am surprised you are entering this discussion. I would think you'd find it boring.

Why would I find discussing things with an intelligent person or persons boring ?

I am not completely satisfied with this definition, either. But I think your rebuttal is equating the soul with the personality, and I don't think the two are synonymous.

The definition you provided drew the comparison with the "faculties of thought, action, and emotion" bit. I merely rebutted it.

Agreed. in scientific terms, it does not hold much meaning, but we're talking about concepts outside the physical world and the scientifically-testable realm.

I have only my sensory experience and my rational faculties to draw upon. In the course of my experience, I have not found any reason to bring in supernatural or spiritual explanations for phenomena I've personally experienced. Moreover, many subjective experiences related by others can be convincingly explained by elementary mistakes or assumptions in their perception or thought, or as glitches in neurochemistry. By Occam's parsimony, I adopt the simplest naturalistic explanations for these phenomena, and hence reject the existence of an immaterial soul. At least until fresh and convincing evidence is found to the contrary. I am open minded about this.

I am going along similar lines of reasoning as you are here, but in a different direction. It's all or nothing. Either everything has a soul, or nothing has a soul. The problem I have is with some theologically-constructed dividing line between man and beast determining what species has achieved a high-enough evolutionary status to be considered 'soul-worthy'. If I were a creationist, I probably wouldn't take issue with this, but I am not.

Good, we're in agreement here. No arbitrary cut-offs between "man" and "beast".

 

[RAD4921]

Animal spirit

Native American religions believe spirit is in all things as does Hinduism. The rock band the Police say this in their song "King of Pain" You can see that Sting believes in some dort of unifying soul.


There's a little black spot on the sun today
It's the same old thing as yesterday
There's a black hat caught in a high tree top
There's a flag-pole rag and the wind won't stop

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain
There's a little black spot on the sun today
That's my soul up there
It's the same old thing as yesterday
That's my soul up there
There's a black hat caught in a high tree top
That's my soul up there
There's a flag-pole rag and the wind won't stop
That's my soul up there
I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain
There's a fossil that's trapped in a high cliff wall
That's my soul up there
There's a dead salmon frozen in a waterfall
That's my soul up there
There's a blue whale beached by a springtide's ebb
That's my soul up there
There's a butterfly trapped in a spider's web
That's my soul up there
I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain
There's a king on a throne with his eyes torn out
There's a blind man looking for a shadow of doubt
There's a rich man sleeping on a golden bed
There's a skeleton choking on a crust of bread
King of pain

There's a red fox torn by a huntsman's pack
That's my soul up there
There's a black-winged gull with a broken back
That's my soul up there
There's a little black spot on the sun today
It's the same old thing as yesterday

I have stood here before in the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I always thought you could end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain
King of pain
King of pain
King of pain
I'll always be king of pain

 

[Rybo]

Soul equals biologic or biologic with nervous system?

Wouldn't giving an animal a soul put it on the same level as a human being in essence? This is impossible because we know humans are on a higher life form than animals.

Just, Humans are animals. The primary differrence is the accessiblity to intellectual metaphysical concepts e.g. mathematics, concepts of Universe and specifically the ability to conceptually place our self viewpoint outside of a conceptually finite Universe and then look back inwards to that Universe.

For me, similar but not exactly like "Math is Hard's" idea i.e. a biologic doe not contain a soul but is a sould. Soul and biologics are interghcangable words for me.

Soul like all words has at least two conotatiions or aspects. One is physical and one is metaphysical.

Similarly spirit is physical energy or is it metaphysical intent.

Rybo

 

[WILLOBIE]

The ancients believed that animals had souls, or anima. From anima we get animal and animate. The difference between a corpse and a bright-eyed being is the soul, or anima. This much is hard to argue with. One need not make any metaphysical leaps to see the difference between life and non-life. What many of you are talking about is IMMORTAL soul. Christian churches make this distinction, to keep heaven from being overrun with rats and squirrels. Personally, I don't believe in immortality, so I am even with my dogs on that count too.

Nevertheless, some creatures seem to have more soul than others. A quote from "In the Spotlight. Deb Duncan and Treasure. Front and Finish, December 2004" may be in order:

"Beowulf's most remarkable gift was the way he touched everyone’s life. Even ‘non-dog’ people were won over and impacted by his special way of connecting with absolutely everyone he met. People who have been blessed with a “soul dog” know what I mean by that term. However, what Beowulf gave to others, how he touched their lives is something I have never been able to explain, much less put into words. "

I am fortunate to have a dog like this.