Specific Volume water antifreeze mix

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expansion change of a 50-50 mix of water and antifreeze (specifically Propylene glycol and Ethylene glycol) as it transitions from liquid to gas. Participants explore the implications of this transition in the context of a specific application involving heat and phase changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Andy inquires about the expansion change of a 50-50 mix of water and antifreeze during the phase transition from liquid to gas, expressing interest in both Propylene glycol and Ethylene glycol.
  • Berkeman asks for clarification on the context of the question, suggesting it may relate to a practical application or schoolwork.
  • Some participants note that Ethylene glycol cannot boil at normal atmospheric pressure and may decompose instead, with the possibility of achieving a gas phase through vacuum distillation.
  • Andy explains that the inquiry is not for schoolwork but relates to a concept involving a process that cycles between liquid and steam, requiring a quick change in expansion rate similar to water's (approximately 1600 times).
  • Hilbert2 mentions a material spec sheet indicating a flash point around 480°F and questions whether the mixture would still burn or decompose when mixed with water.
  • Another participant responds that when heated, water will boil off first, leaving glycol, which then begins to decompose.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the behavior of Ethylene glycol under heating conditions, with some agreeing on its decomposition while others focus on the application of the water-antifreeze mix. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific expansion change and the behavior of the mixture under different conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific data on the expansion rates of the water-antifreeze mixture and the conditions under which the phase changes occur. There are also unresolved assumptions regarding the application and the precise behavior of the mixture at various temperatures.

andyhol
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What is the expansion change of a 50-50 mix of water and antifreeze as the mixture goes from liquid to gas. If possible both Propylene glycol and Ethylene glycol; but, I am not picky, either would be extremely appreciated.

Many Thanks
Andy
 
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andyhol said:
What is the expansion change of a 50-50 mix of water and antifreeze as the mixture goes from liquid to gas. If possible both Propylene glycol and Ethylene glycol; but, I am not picky, either would be extremely appreciated.

Many Thanks
Andy

Welcome to the PF.

What is the context of the question? What is the application? Or is this for schoolwork?
 
Ethylene glycol can not boil at normal atmospheric pressure. If you heat it enough, it just gives off a huge amount of smoke and decomposes to form other compounds. You might get it in gas phase with vacuum distillation, though.
 
Berkeman -
It is not for school work, I'm too old for that :-) It is for an idea/concept that I have, that I would prefer not to post here.
If water froze at a lower temp it would be ideal in my application. My application will go from liquid to steam, do to heat, be reclaimed cooled too liquid and then the process repeats. I need the expansion rate close to water (1600 times) and it needs to be a quick change. Was hoping a 50/50 mix with antifreeze might come close.

Hilbert2- I saw a materiel spec sheet that said it flashed at something like 480 F. If mixed with water does it still burn/decompose?
 
andyhol said:
Hilbert2- I saw a materiel spec sheet that said it flashed at something like 480 F. If mixed with water does it still burn/decompose?

If the mixture is heated, the water boils off first and when there's only glycol left, it starts decomposing.
 

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