Speed of Sound in Compressed C02 Tank

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the speed of sound in a compressed CO2 tank used in a cold gas rocket. Participants explore the relationship between tank pressure, exhaust velocity, and the speed of sound in both the gas and liquid phases of CO2, as well as relevant equations and concepts related to gas dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the exhaust velocity is the speed of sound in the higher pressure area minus the speed of sound in the lower pressure area.
  • Another participant seeks to determine the speed of sound in the CO2 tank, specifically in the liquid phase at room temperature and high pressure.
  • A link to a resource is provided, suggesting that equations for exhaust velocities may not relate directly to the speed of sound.
  • One participant asserts that the maximum flow of a pressurized gas is directly proportional to the speed of sound in that gas, referencing the concept of "choked flow."
  • A later reply acknowledges the correction regarding the relationship between gas flow and the speed of sound.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between exhaust velocity and the speed of sound, with some asserting a direct connection while others question this link. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific calculations and implications for the cold gas rocket.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached consensus on the calculations for the speed of sound in liquid CO2 or the implications for exhaust velocity. There are also unresolved aspects regarding the density of liquid CO2 at the specified conditions.

MattRob
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Hey,
I've built a Cold Gas Rocket using a Co2 tank that stores liquid C02 at room temperature around 850 psi. (A Cold Gas Rocket is a rocket that uses a pressurized tank to propel the reaction mass instead of combustion, essentially just open a scuba tank and that's a very dangerous (not the one I built) cold gas rocket.)
I suspect the exhaust velocity of the rocket is the speed of sound in the tank (850 +/- 200 psi) minus the speed of sound in the air (14.7 psi).
C02 is at room temperature, tank is half full of liquid, other half is high-pressure C02 at just below liquid pressure (still around ~850 psi).

So,
1) Is the exhaust/exit velocity the speed of sound in the higher pressure area minus the speed of sound in the lower pressure area?
2) What is the speed of sound in the C02 tank?

Information:
Tank Pressure: (800 psi +/- 200 for range of temperatures)
Tank temperature: ~72*F, Room temperature.
Tank state: half liquid, half gas. I'm more concerned with the liquid, calculate for liquid, please. (Since the liquid is forced to the exit when the valve is opened, it's the one that counts.)
Tank density: ? Liquid C02 at room temperature and 850 psi.

Thanks in advance.
 
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I found this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...uRmPLVkA&sig2=owumVzMLC129DqRicyovfA&cad=rja". It has equations for exhaust velocities. As far as I can tell, they are not related to the speed of sound of anything.

They also refer to a book, "Understanding Space" by Jerry Jon Sellers. That book probably has all the equations you need. You can check http://www.worldcat.org" to find if that book is available in any libraries near you. In not, you might be able to ask your local public library to borrow that book from a library that has it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Contrary to what Omoplata writes, the maximum flow of a pressurized gas from a tank is directly proportional to the speed of sound in that gas. The condition is called "choked flow", and more details can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choked_flow
 
Thanks for correcting. I didn't know that.
 

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