Splitting Fields: Anderson and Feil, Theorem 45.4

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Theorem 45.4 from Anderson and Feil's "A First Course in Abstract Algebra," specifically focusing on the proof related to splitting fields and the properties of polynomials. Participants seek clarification on the implications of certain statements in the theorem's proof, particularly regarding the nature of polynomial factors and differentiation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter questions whether the polynomial $g$ should be over $F$ instead of $K$, given that $f$ is in $F[x]$.
  • Some participants argue that if $g$ were over $F$, then $f$ would be reducible in $F[x]$, which contradicts the assumption of irreducibility.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of term-by-term differentiation and its implications for the polynomial $f'$ being in $F[x]$.
  • Peter raises a point about the possibility of $g$ having coefficients in $F$ while being irreducible in $F[x]$, questioning the reasoning behind the assumptions made.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of $\alpha$ as a repeated root in $K$, which leads to the expression of $f(x)$ as $(x - \alpha)^k g(x)$ for some $g(x) \in K[x]$.
  • It is noted that while $g(x)$ could potentially be in $F[x]$, it is not necessarily true that it is.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the polynomial $g$ and its coefficients, leading to an unresolved discussion regarding the implications of these properties on the reducibility of $f$ in $F[x]$. There is no consensus on whether $g$ must be over $K$ or can also be over $F$.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the definitions and assumptions involved, particularly regarding the relationship between the roots of polynomials and their coefficients in different fields.

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I am reading Anderson and Feil - A First Course in Abstract Algebra.

I am currently focused on Ch. 45: The Splitting Field ... ...

I need some help with some aspects of the proof of Theorem 45.4 ...

Theorem 45.4 and its proof read as follows:View attachment 6677
My questions on the above proof are as follows:Question 1In the above text from Anderson and Feil we read the following:"... ... This means that $$f = ( x - \alpha)^k g$$, where $$k$$ is an integer greater than $$1$$ and $$g$$ is a polynomial over $$K$$ ... ... Since $$f$$ is in $$F[x]$$ ... that is $$f$$ is over $$F$$ ... shouldn't g be over $$F$$ not $$K$$?

(I am assuming that f being "over $$F$$" means the coefficients of $$f$$ are in $$F$$ ... )

Question 2In the above text from Anderson and Feil we read the following:"... ... We then have that $$x - \alpha$$ is a factor of both $$f$$ and $$f'$$. But if we use term-by-term differentiation instead, it is clear that $$f'\in F[x]$$. ... ... "What do Anderson and Feil mean by term-by-term differentiation in this context ... ... and if they do use term-by-term differentiation (what ever they mean) how does this show that $$f'\in F[x]$$ ... ... ?
Hope someone can help ...

Help will be much appreciated ... ...

Peter
 
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Peter said:
Question 1In the above text from Anderson and Feil we read the following:"... ... This means that $$f = ( x - \alpha)^k g$$, where $$k$$ is an integer greater than $$1$$ and $$g$$ is a polynomial over $$K$$ ... ... Since $$f$$ is in $$F[x]$$ ... that is $$f$$ is over $$F$$ ... shouldn't g be over $$F$$ not $$K$$?

If $g$ were a polynomial over $F$, then $f$ would be reducible in $F[x]$, contrary to assumption.
Peter said:
Question 2In the above text from Anderson and Feil we read the following:"... ... We then have that $$x - \alpha$$ is a factor of both $$f$$ and $$f'$$. But if we use term-by-term differentiation instead, it is clear that $$f'\in F[x]$$. ... ... "What do Anderson and Feil mean by term-by-term differentiation in this context ... ... and if they do use term-by-term differentiation (what ever they mean) how does this show that $$f'\in F[x]$$ ... ... ?

They mean to differentiate each summand in the standard form of $f$. So if $f(x) = c_0 + c_1x + \cdots + c_n x^n$, then you are to compute $Df$ by computing the derivative of each summand $c_i x^i$ ($0 \le i \le n$). This would give a polynomial in $F[x]$ of lesser degree than that of $f$.
 
Euge said:
If $g$ were a polynomial over $F$, then $f$ would be reducible in $F[x]$, contrary to assumption. They mean to differentiate each summand in the standard form of $f$. So if $f(x) = c_0 + c_1x + \cdots + c_n x^n$, then you are to compute $Df$ by computing the derivative of each summand $c_i x^i$ ($0 \le i \le n$). This would give a polynomial in $F[x]$ of lesser degree than that of $f$.
Thanks for the help Euge ...You write:"... ... If $g$ were a polynomial over $F$, then $f$ would be reducible in $F[x]$, contrary to assumption. ... ... But ... ... ... couldn't $$g$$ have it's coefficients in $$F$$ ... but possesses no root in $$F$$ ... and still be irreducible in $$F[x]$$ ... why is this not possible ... ?

Can you help further ...?

Peter
 
Since $k >1$, $x - \alpha$ would be a proper factor of $f$.
 
Euge said:
Since $k >1$, $x - \alpha$ would be a proper factor of $f$.
Thanks Euge ... but I still do not follow ... sorry ... probably being slow to catch on ...

I am having difficulties seeing the link between k > 1 and f being reducible in F[x] and g being over K (or F) ...

Are you able to clarify ...

Again ... apologies for not following your points ...

Peter
 
Sorry, I made a slight error, assuming $\alpha\in F$. It's by definition of $\alpha$ being a repeated root in $K$ that $f(x)$ can be expressed as $(x - \alpha)^k g(x)$ for some $g(x)\in K[x]$ and integer $k > 1$. So while it's possible that $g(x)\in F[x]$ (as $F[x]\subset K[x]$), it is not necessarily true that $g(x)\in F[x]$.
 
Euge said:
Sorry, I made a slight error, assuming $\alpha\in F$. It's by definition of $\alpha$ being a repeated root in $K$ that $f(x)$ can be expressed as $(x - \alpha)^k g(x)$ for some $g(x)\in K[x]$ and integer $k > 1$. So while it's possible that $g(x)\in F[x]$ (as $F[x]\subset K[x]$), it is not necessarily true that $g(x)\in F[x]$.
Thanks Euge ...

Appreciate all your help ...

Peter
 

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