Star Delta Conversion: Why Phase Shift?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phase shift that occurs when converting winding configurations from star (wye) to delta and vice versa in electrical systems, particularly in transformers. Participants explore the implications of this phase shift, its mathematical representation, and its practical significance in various applications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the reason for a 30-degree phase shift when converting between star and delta configurations, seeking clarification on the underlying principles.
  • Another participant suggests using phasor diagrams and vectorial additions to understand the phase shift better, indicating that a detailed explanation of the participant's prior attempts is necessary.
  • A participant describes their experience with a specific transformer setup, noting a consistent 30-degree phase shift and expressing concern about the reasons behind this shift.
  • One participant provides a mathematical example of the vector additions involved in the conversion, illustrating how the phase shift and magnitude ratios are derived from the connections of the windings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons for the phase shift, with some focusing on mathematical representations while others express uncertainty about the expected outcomes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the underlying causes of the phase shift.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific configurations and measurements, but there are limitations in the assumptions made about the systems discussed, and the mathematical steps are not fully resolved.

vinayjain
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Why there is a phase shift of 30 degree (positive or negative) if we convert our winding from star to delta or vice versa?
 
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Can you be more specific as to what exactly it is you are talking about?

Are you talking about a small 3-phase generator?

Have you tried a phasor diagram and perform the vectorial additions that happen when you do such wye and delta connections?

Please explain what you have tried and why you think the 30 phase shift shouldn't be there or how much shift you were expecting or something!...need to know where you are coming from.
 
I tried this on a transformer of 40MVA, 35/10 kV with higher side as delta connected and low voltage side as star connected and it gives a minimum of 30 degree phase shift and my concern is that why do we get a phase shift of minimum 30 degree.
 
Like I said...all you need to do is vector additions.

For example, say you have delta connection in the primary and your voltages are
VAB=1<0
VBC=1<-120
VCA=1<-240

And you do a wye connection on the secondary and connected
the secondary winding of VCA between a and neutral, that is Van = VCA
the secondary winding of VAB between b and neutral, that is Vbn = VAB
the secondary winding of VBC between c and neutral, that is Vcn = VBC

Now, you turn around and want to measure the line-to-line voltages on the secondary side...what are they?

Vab = Van + Vnb = Van - Vbn = 1.732<150
Vbc = Vbn + Vnc = Vbn - Vcn = 1.732<30
Vca = Vcn + Vna = Vcn - Van = 1.732<-90

So, not only is there a phase shift, but there is a ratio in magnitude for transformers with 1:1 turns...1.732 from delta to wye and 1/1.732 from wye to delta.
 
thank you
 

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